Maya kinds going to be the huge, huge topic of research when we exercise. We have a release of my accounts now. They are muscle based proteins. Let's just call them when they're released from the skeletal muscle. They can then go out and act on different organs in the body. We know now that we have specific my counsel, Let's Take il-6 interleukin 6, for example, this is the most, well, studied Maya kind, it gets secreted when
We have a contraction of a muscle so when you shorten the muscle and we contract it during a bicep curl let's just imagine it releases these markers of first one we'll talk about is aisle six. We know aisle six to be this pro-inflammatory cytokine and that's well and truly true. But when it's released to specifically, from the muscle, it acts as an anti-inflammatory. So it goes through an acts as a anti-inflammatory and it can have a an effect on our community.
And it can have an effect on different areas of the brain, which is fantastic.
Today's Show with Louisa Nicola a neurophysiologist to Elite athletes, Wall Street Executives. Many people that you see playing professional basketball on television. She actually coaches, she is a phenomenal person. You are going to learn so many wonderful insights. Now, one thing that I want to remind you about, when we talk about the brain, there's a nutrient that is often overlooked in. That is called creatine. Creatine is often considered an used in the context of exercise performance. But guess what? Creatine, improves memory, cognition. It's been shown that people who have low creatine intake and low creatine levels have poor.
Cognition and poor mental function. So one of the tools that we can offer you over at Mayo, science is the unique combination of electrolytes with creatine in the electrolyte sticks. This is a very popular sought-after formulation, there's over 300 40, some odd reviews because it Futures real salt with therapeutic levels of electrolytes. A lot of companies, some of the most popular companies out there selling electrolytes are literally underdosing, the Magnesium, the potassium, and all the other forms of minerals. And the form of the minerals is not optimal and
We create the electrolyte sticks who not only future optimal forms of electrolytes, but also creatine and touring. These are synergistic, karna nutrients that have been shown to support healthy hydration. And creatine has been shown as we're going to talk about to improve cognition reflex and much more. So, I really hope you enjoy the show with Louisa, check out the electrolyte sticks in the link below. You can also go to my oh science.com read any one of the 300 plus reviews and use the coupon code podcast to save. That's podcast over @m, y 0x, c ience.com,
- science.com. Now, one quick thing before we dive into the show with Louisa, she gave me two of these balls here. If you're just listening in iTunes you might want to check it out over on YouTube. She her company is no Athletics know, what was really unique about these balls that she has a lot of 100 different variations and she has a course that can help you optimize cognition. Whether you want to perform better in your occupation or on the athletic field, your cognition, your reaction time is very important. So I have found these balls to be very helpful especially because you might be able to sense the congestion in my nose.
A lot of people have been cold around me, so I did experience a few symptoms but thankfully have a sauna, so I didn't get totally sick. However, what I noticed is my ability to juggle and do reaction drills that Louisa taught me when we stopped recording was diminished. I think it's important to recognize that when you're sick, your body's actually more inflamed. My brain was a little bit inflamed, so I have been Now using these balls and using the different drills that Louisa has taught me as a measurement of my cognitive abilities in cognitive health. And we talked a lot about that in today's.
They show. So I want you to take this seriously because this is very important and it might help you catalyze. Lifestyle changes. For example, let's say you go out drinking and you like, look, I can drink three glasses of wine, no problem. It doesn't affect me in any way and then you try to juggle in the morning and you can't juggle. That could be a symptom that the ethanol that you like to enjoy that, you think is not impacting. Your brain is actually impairing your cognition. So I really have found these different exercises juggling and the ball throwing techniques with an open hand against
All being about 10 meters away. Has been very effective at helping just to me to get an insight into my cognitive health, and make Associated Lifestyle Changes, whether it's going to sleep earlier, eating different foods and all of that. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. Let's cut back to it with Louisa while Louise had. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I've been a fan of your Instagram and all the content you put out for a long time. For the listeners who don't aren't familiar with your work, you work with a lot of Executives and professional athletes and so forth. And I know you want to get into em torn.
Muscle and all that. Which is we've talked a lot about then, it's so exciting. But maybe how did you get into helping people perform at their
best? Yeah, first of all, I love your content. So thank you so much for having me. So I was a triathlete in my day, I say my day because I was, it was a very long time ago, but I was an elite triathlete. I raced for Australia, so I really understood what it meant to perform at my Peak. So, I raced internationally and I started to understand that the
Brain is pretty much everything that controls my movement from how I pedal to how fast I run to how fast I swim. And that's when I really started to understand, okay, I need to know more about the brain and need to know more about medicine and that's when I decided to make the move. Good for you. Yeah.
What was your favorite event when you are
athlete? My favorite was the one that I was best at and that is swimming. Okay. Yeah, I was at so,
Natural-born swimmers because I'm from Australia. We're all taught to swim from a young age and just because I was, I would say I was heavier than most of the other girls that I was competing with and there were just faster Runners than me. So running was my worst
leg, it's hard. Yeah, I did competitive cycling and so I love to bike and I can run by can't swim. So, yeah. Swimming's like, it's so much technique involved.
This technique, there's endurance. It's especially when you're in a, an Open Water.
Shane you've got it's a bit crazy at the start, you're getting hit but it's got, It's
exhilarating. Yeah. And there's a lot of mental acuity and that very cognitive intensive you know focusing on your stroke and stuff.
And yeah. So pretty much back then I cannot wear dating back like this is I did my last race in 2012, so I started racing at around 16 and we never learnt about sleep, you know, my coach, by the way. I was I was training mainly with men but Mike
Pooches to say stop sleeping so much, you need to be on the bike. I was training five hours a day, really in all legs. And then my downtime was me getting massages and physical therapy. So I look back then and I think we were never taught about Neuroscience obviously, but we're never taught about sleep and we will never even taught about nutrition. So I was desperate to find out what is it that makes someone perform at their
Peak?
And what did you discover? I'm a lot of things.
But yeah, so I first of all when I went in and started studying medicine and neurophysiology I found out that a the nervous system which comprises of the central nervous system peripheral nervous system that first and foremost that is the, I call it the federal government of the entire body. So that guys are so if that's not optimized, then if you keep working down the tree, then the rest of the body are sympathetic nervous.
Our parasympathetic nervous system that's not going to be optimized and in Neuroscience as a bi-directional axis. So top-down processing, Bottoms Up processing. So it's all intertwined. So if we're not, if we're not optimized at the start of the tree which is the brain and spinal cord, then we're just not going to be able to perform in any in any place in life at work as a good husband, as a good mother, as a good friend. I think that it all comes down to how well, our brain is performing
and sleep, is it.
Critical facet to bring Health with repair and clearing of you know chemicals and things like that that we synthesizer in the day. So maybe let's talk about sleep first, as how Sleep Quality sleep duration, consistency. How important is that? And specifically, what is that doing for the brain? As it relates to Performance?
Yeah. My I always say that I think that being awake is like, low-level brain damage because we are spending. So,
Much time awake. If you look back, you know, prehistoric times we will sleeping around 12 hours a day and we were really regenerating our brain. And that's what sleep is. Therefore. But now if you ask anybody, and I asked most of my clients this, I ask them. How long did you sleep last night? And let's just say, anybody says, okay, I slept for eight hours, we know that you're probably really only asleep for around seven hours because that other hour is spent tossing turning falling.
So you're not actually in sleep so it's extremely important that we optimize sleep. So let's talk about the stages. So there's four stages of sleep. And stage one is when we're starting to fall asleep, we're going to Stage 2. It's light sleep, then we're going to stage 3 and this is comprised of our deep sleep. So it's also called slow-wave sleep, and it's a non REM sleep and then we move into Stage 4 and this is REM sleep. Rapid eye movement sleep,
Lee and I would say that stage, three and four are the most important stages especially for our brain. So, during deep sleep, we have the obviously we have a lot of hormones that are secreted. We've got testosterone estrogen growth hormone which are really responsible for growth and repair of muscle groups. But then we've also got a wonderful thing that happens during deep sleep. And that's the glymphatic system. So it's like a sewage system for the brain.
And it basically is responsible for clearing out all of the toxins and debris. He's and in fact, one of the toxins that it clears out is a protein called amyloid beta. And we know that this specific protein is a Hallmark in Alzheimer's disease, patients. So you could say that the accumulation of these certain proteins when they build up, they obviously cause havoc on our brain and can lead to neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, dementia.
Has so getting into this stage has extremely important for a high performing brain and just to get into a bit more of how this happens. So we've got different nerve cells. Brain is comprised of neurons which are brain cells. We've got all these other different cells, we have this nonsense cell, I call it, it's a glial cell basically means glue in Greek, and they just bind other cells together but neurons, which are the most important ones and during deep sleep,
They shrink, and when they shrink it allows for out, fluid in our brain, which is cerebral, spinal fluid to really go through and throw out the trash. So, it has room. So, all this Gunk is getting washed out through the cerebral, spinal fluid. So it's a really beautiful process at, you know, Mother Nature has gifted us
with. Mmm, that's amazing. So if you're not hitting those deep stages, that stage four sleep, these glial cells, don't shrink. And so, the glue the lymph in
In the cervical spinal fluid and much more is stagnant. Yeah. And then you might get buildup of these proteins and then assuming then that would lead to damage and so
forth. Yeah. But it's not just that it's not just the accumulation of these toxic proteins. It's also, you know, when you wake up and maybe you're feeling like you've got brain fog, and you just not feeling great and almost everyone experiences this, you then can ask them, you know, you can either have a look at their sleep stats, if they're wearing something. But more often than not, they're not getting in too deep.
Late. And as a you know, as a general rule we want to be aiming at around. I would say 30 percent of your total sleep time to be comprised of deep sleep and 20% of Total Sleep, time to be comprised of REM sleep. And then that moves on to stage 4 because stage 3 slow-wave sleep is the deep sleep. Then stage 4 is REM sleep. This is where a lot of our memory consolidation happens and we can also
Also say that that's probably where learning takes place, we've got people who are learning new skills. I've got athletes who are learning new skills. We've got students who are learning new skills, but that really takes place in that REM state, in that REM sleep stage. So, if we're not optimizing for that, then we're not really getting our memory consolidation happening,
right? And people talk about alcohol, circadian, rhythm disruption, evening, light exposure, these things. What's the biggest Trigger or the
A sort of modifiable factor that compromises both deep and REM sleep that you found with your clients.
Yeah, I think. Okay, first and foremost, what we see I get a lot of people saying to me, but Louise, I wake up during the night. It's, you know, do I have insomnia from the data? What we see is that the biggest disruptor when it comes to insomnia is anxiety and stress. So no matter what if you are anxious and you are stress, it's going to either prevent you from falling.
Being asleep, or it's going to wake you up in the night. And this is mainly because of the activation of our sympathetic nervous system. So that's the first thing that we are talked about. Then the second thing is, yeah, alcohol. So alcohol, or the active ingredient in alcohol, which is ethanol is probably the biggest inhibitor of REM sleep. So, staying away from alcohol and obviously, just staying away from light exposure at night and blue, light blocking glasses are good.
An extent? Yeah. But it's not like it's going to completely block out light.
It's yeah, it's tough and especially if you like you live in Manhattan when there's light everywhere. That's a downside that I found with like airbnb's or any major city. I think a lot of people are not in tune with that environmental light exposure and impact that it has. Yeah. And how minimal I think there was a recent study, that sort of enumerated Deluxe that you want before bed, two hours of, he was less than 50 Luxe. And then while you're
Being less than 5 Lux. And a lot of people are not in those
environment. Yeah, blackout curtains were one thing that I actually haven't slept, without is a sleep mask. So, I've got a, I've invested in my sleep mask, so I wear a sleep mask to be completely blacked out at night. But I also take consideration, like, I have my last meal two hours before bed and this is not just because it keeps us awake through digestion. But also when we eat, we get a natural increase in our core body, temperature. And we know now that
Order to fall asleep and stay asleep. Our core body temperature needs to drop at least two degrees. So I'm trying to maintain that as well. I'm trying to get my core body temperature dropped, so I can stay asleep throughout the
night. You sleep better in the winter Manhattan and we're, it was pretty
cold. Well, I must admit I'm a pretty high-tech. I sleep on a temperature-controlled mattress. Yeah, I'm actually freezing in New York City all the time. So, I optimize my sleep environment, so it's completely optimized for
me. Good for you.
Which one have you found to be the most
helpful 1/8 sleep? Okay. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever slept on it, but the good thing is it wakes you up by increased by increasing the temperature of the bed as you wake
up? That's awesome. Yeah. Is there like a trial phase to run in to figure out your Port? Okay.
Yeah. So it combines your biometric tracking as well. So it picks up on all the ways is in deep sleep. Now we're going to drop the temperature, she's now in REM sleep. So I'm going to drop it more. I'll she's stated that she's going to wake up at 6 a.m. so
Around 5:45 will start to heat the boat bed, back
up. That's amazing. Yeah, do a lot of athletes. Are they keen on investing in this
technology? Yeah, actually one of the biggest things that we get them to invest in is a mattress like this, and a lot of them are traveling as well. So we have different protocols, like jet lag. Protocols in place we have an app for them to use like their jet lag protocols on that app. So they're not, you know chucking everything out the
window. That's amazing. Yeah. And you can't mention
Nicknames, but I'll find you were telling me some people that you work with. Yeah. And some pretty high level folks. So I often wonder and see. For example, Seattle Seahawks just played a game in Germany. Yeah. And that's like, I think a 13 hour time difference or something so for them to perform at their Peak at a completely different time zone. Are a lot of these professional teams in tune with this and doing a lot of stuff
behind the scenes now. Yes, so I moved to New York City in 2017. Mainly, because I was looking at all of these teams and I'm trying to understand
Why they haven't invested in sleep coaching for example, but now we're starting to become smarter, and we're starting to understand the impacts of jet lag and sleep deprivation on performance. However, at the end of the day, most of these athletes, which is something I'm really trying to Lobby against, they are having to get on a plane, get off a plane at sleep for four hours. And then have to perform the following day, not to mention something. That a lot of people don't see with these athletes is it's not just game time. They
Have press conferences. They have Team meetings, they have manager meetings all on the same day as when they're performing so it's scary.
It's a lot of potential disruption. Yeah, going back to alcohol, the holidays are coming up. Lot of people might be consuming more alcohol than usual. Is it the acetaldehyde? The the byproduct that is disturbing that Leo lymphatic system and so forth is that I know Matthew Walker's talked about
that except yeah I think. Yeah it inhibits the action of
Except for example, one of it inhibits the action of Gaba. Yeah. Which is our chief inhibitory neurotransmitter one that calms us down and relaxes US during the night. So that's going to be very disruptive but also you've got to look at the stress that it cause causes you cortisol. For example is one of the stress hormones that's going to Peak when you're having something like a sedative like alcohol. And the other thing is a lot of people think they're falling asleep.
Sleep when they having alcohol or even marijuana, but they just sedating themselves and a sedative is, you know, something that we use in surgery. You go in, you have proper V, it puts you into a sedative state but it doesn't put you to. So you're not going into these sleep stages. So they're two different things.
That's important to understand that. A lot of people are self-medicating with with THC in marijuana. Does that impact the cycles of the REM and deep sleep and
all? Yeah, it impacts them.
And the thing that I always want to point out to people is it's not just a one-time effect. If you, I always say you're preparing for Sleep, the moment that you wake up. So if you have a really bad night, sleep and let's say, you you maybe fall asleep or sedate yourself until 11 a.m. you're going to mess up your entire circadian rhythm. So, you want to be optimizing for Sleep daily. That's why consistency is key
so important with meal timing with
exercise. Yes, 80% of the time because I know we're not all robots.
If you can sleep well, 80% of the time and that's great. I mean 100% is better, but we're all human,
right? And so you're going back to Australia soon, will you start shifting your like when you're falling asleep here and maybe change your feeding windows and stuff like that?
Like yeah. So I follow an app where you input your plane X? Actually so you import that your planes and it tells you when to have caffeine when to not have light. And so I I go to La first and I'll have a two day Leo.
Over there just to help my body. And in fact, some of the best research that's out there that, you know, talks about sleep deprivation on planes, says that you should try and get as much sleep as possible before you get on the
plane like sleep. Banking, they call Sleep banking. Yeah. That's a real
deal. Yeah, it's especially when you, especially when you're about to
travel really important, you know, I like to travel just like anyone and I do get concerned with the staff the pilots. You see them?
They're flying internationally different time zones. There could be bad weather and you see them eating McDonald's. Like that's always a scary thing. Seen the pilots, come on the plane with McDonald's, I'm thinking oh my gosh, what? I mean this you know it's one thing to optimize for making more money and Performing as an athlete. But as in society, we have people driving cars, you know, operating trains like this is a real real thing. So how much of an effect is some of that you know?
Yeah that comes into the cognitive processes. So our prefrontal
Uncle cortex which lives in our frontal lobe, just here behind our for road, is the, is the ruler of our brain. And that's where our cognition happens. Things such as attention Reaction, Time processing speed. Now, when it comes to the literature on sleep deprivation, they, when they, when they want to study, that they take into account drivers who have had accidents. And they can see that a driver, who has slept for six hours is I think their increased their rate of having an accident by 33% 1 /.
If slept for six hours and six hours is a sleep-deprived state in the scientific literature. Yeah, there's just so much to be said about Reaction Time, even they do a lot on surgeons. You know how well they're able to make sound decisions when they're operating but also NBA players shurima, she's a wonderful physician who's looked at the effects of sleep deprivation on point scores of NBA players. Yeah. And she actually did a sleep extension protocol and
So that they increased their free throws, their reaction time on the court, just by extending their sleep by about an
hour. That's amazing. You know, I think it's great to have these conversations because some of us just have a bad day. Periodically, we make a poor decision. We almost got in a car accident, we overreact with our loved ones, and things like that. And it's the simple fixes that could impact like our sleep, which impacts our mood, the next day. So it's really important to
which impacts what we eat. Our decisions to not eat the donut or eat the donut the
To drink more water. Not drink
water, really important, because based upon what you said, I inferred that the, the part of the brain. That's impacted the most by say, poor nutrition sleep. Deprivation is the prefrontal
cortex. Yeah, absolutely.
So that's you were talking about some folks that you clients our viewers. Are you coach that are on Wall Street and surfing and their decision-making over time. They're noticing, they're observing that they're not making the same level of decisions and so forth. So it seems like when
Were younger. We can get away with the fast food alcohol for not four hours of sleep at night. Yeah. But it catches up with us later
and that's because as we age we have a natural Aging in our brain and there's many hypothesis for this. There's many and I think the best ones that stand out to me are first and foremost as one that states. That as we age, we have a lower efficacy of our frontal Loop. Okay? So that means that as we age, our frontal lobe, we get thinning of our cerebral.
So if we get thinning of the cerebral cortex, especially in the prefrontal cortex, this means that we're not going to be able to make decisions the same as what we did in our 20s. So we get a lower decision rate. We get worsening of our processing speed inhibition, impulse control all of these things that we just have natural to us just declines as we get older. So that then affects the way. We think it work the way we make.
Decisions. The way we spend money, the way we choose to argue with our partners at all. At all, please, it's all related, it's all
related. Now, this process, it's amenable to lifestyle, change. Like it happens, but it doesn't happen. It doesn't have to happen at the rate that it does
correct. We can slow down the brain, aging process through lifestyle, interventions such as sleep, good nutrition, and of course exercise, there's another theory that states that as we get older, we have a dysregulation in our White.
White metal. So the brain is comprised of gray matter and white matter and white matter is where all of our myelinated neurons live. And so this is where we have our that's where our conduction velocities happen, like speed of thought, for example, happens on the white part or the white matter of our brain. So as we get older we have a, an atrophy of our white matter. And so if we have a atrophy of white Madam that means that
Of course, another thing is, our processing speed is going to decline. And so that's another scary thing as well.
And you can assess for this,
we can assess for this yet. So with the specific tool that we use, we use an EEG. It's an electroencephalogram, being like the cap that you put on your head. You've got all these leads coming out of it and you mainly see it in an epilepsy Ward or if you're going to check for a seizure. But what this is doing is its scanning, the brain waves. Okay?
So we put this, we put this on and we measure brain wave activity, but we can also measure the functionality of somebody's brain. And let's just take one of our, one of our clients on Wall Street. So here's 52 now. And he came to us and said, Louisa,
I don't know what's happening. I'm just seeing a decline in my performance. I'm just, you know, he assess the market. So the market was good, his team was good, same software, but he's just, he's just things are just sees just seeing a decline he didn't know what was happening. So I scanned his brain and we did a full visual Acuity test. We did a full brain map, with his eyes open, his eyes closed and were able to see where so it doesn't normative database. You're able to see how old is his brain.
Mmmmm. Okay, so he is it was in his in his very early 50s, I think, is around. Forty nine at the time now is 52. His brain was the same as a 65 year old. So he had an accelerated brain age. I asked him. Okay, let's go back in time and figure out why the guy was sleeping four to five hours a night. He was self-medicating with alcohol because he had such a high stress job. He had millions of dollars that he had to take care of. He couldn't deal with that.
What he wasn't exercising. So that there is a cocktail of disaster that led to his accelerated brain aging. Wow, that's
scary. So having that objective data, you know, it's one thing to tell someone, hey if you could perform better, if you eat better food and exercise and they might say, sure, whatever I'll do it when I can, but seeing that your brain has actually accelerated. Yes, aging process that I think, is a powerful motivating factor for some people to actually take this option.
Seriously, absolutely.
So, at
just like that, you probably have to someone has to come out and see you in person to do that. And what would something like that cost?
Well, it depends if you do it privately or if you actually go into a an actual office like a hospital and do they probably looking at around 1,500 2,000? Okay
yeah and is there is it one technology like one
system? Yeah okay yes. So the cap is itself, an EEG cap but then that connects to a specific software.
Which will then give you the report. So we get two types of report. We get a raw data EG, but then we also get a qeg, which is a quantitative electron Surfer G. So it gives you the measurements of someone's brain in different regions, so it can see this part of the brain is not lighting up when it needs to this part of the brain is hyperactive, this part is hypoactive. So it's so we can pick up on what area of the brain isn't performing at its peak.
Eek what area is
that's amazing. Yeah and then once you know that obviously there's Global things like sleep nutrition that we've been talking about exercise but other more specific like let's say is the language like the warranties area or something like it when it's wet, there is specific areas. Then you can fine-tune those
areas. Yes. Well, the thing, the reason why this was actually, you know invented like in the way that I was meant to be using it in the way that I was using. It was to pick up on mild cognitive impairment now. M.
CI is a pre, dementia state. So I was just seeing hundreds and hundreds of people coming in just checking for MCI. And that's what we will checking for. And that's great because we can say, Hey listen, you've got mild cognitive impairment, we can then move on to the next stage which you know, you can do blood biomarkers. You can do a genetic test to see if they've got the genes for Alzheimer's disease. So it's pretty much the first stop to detecting early onset Alzheimer's disease but
Everybody has a brain. So I was thinking, well why we're not testing this on everyone? Everyone should see the functionality of their brain, so that's when I started doing that. Good for you. Yeah, it's
amazing. Now, how many other clinicians like you were doing this throughout? The u.s. do you think? Is it? I don't know, hundreds
dozens, not many, ya know, which is why I think I get to work with such a high level Elite
athletes and so awesome. Yeah, it's a shame because, you know, we go to the doctor where most people get an annual, physical, they look at rudimentary.
Biomarkers blood glucose cholesterol, triglycerides, whatever. And we can triangulate from those markers. Oh, well, because you're on some resistant, their data suggest that you might be at higher risk for future Alzheimer's, so change your diet, but having a quantitative assessment in your brain, I think should be part of like an annual
physical. Yeah, I figured, I think it was Dale bredesen that has said that we should get an annual cognos Tepee. It's amazing. Yeah. So just picking up on how well your brain is functioning but
here's the thing, I don't want, you know, my thesis is everyone should be working on their brain because it is the control center of your entire body. And I say this, because as we get older, and we have a decline in these in these decision-making abilities and processing speed, It's upsetting that at age, 70, 80 that we have to be prone to those, but we don't have to, we can starve off these pre, dementia States. We can starve off these slowing of
Cognition through exercise and guess one, it's free.
Yes, this is amazing. Okay? You've worked with a lot of people, how many people have come in and you're like, wow, your brain is amazing. Like it's actually younger than your biologic or your chronological age. Is that common
or I did say, yeah, I did say one man who I said, oh my God, you are unbelievable. But he was, he was doing. He had a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. So he was doing that. He had a cold
Plunge, he had a sauna. He was doing absolutely everything that in hindsight, it's like, well, if should everyone be doing that? Not should. But he, he invested heavily on his brain
and why was it? Because I family member got Dementia, or he just wanted to perform at
his best. He made a lot of money and he sold his company and he saw his parents passed away of dementia. Hmm. And he made it his mission to literally spend all of his money turning his
House into a chamber. It is, it is really incredible. Wow, that's yeah. I was going to say, I've watched documentaries of Cristiano Ronaldo and he does. If I could scan his brain, it would probably look like a
23 year old, that's amazing. Yeah. I mean that's what's great about the brain. Is it is very plastic right in a minimal to these different changes in modifiable for people that have had head trauma played. And we see this in the media. A lot I I used to play football so I have watched athletes in the
then it seems like late 30s, early 40s, you start to see these behavioral changes where they make poor business decisions, or they started getting more involved in drugs and alcohol. How does the head trauma? Does it really accelerate the degree duration of the prefrontal
cortex? Well, it depends on where you get hit but I could say that I started working with NFL athletes because I saw a crossover between CTE which is chronic traumatic encephalopathy and if you look at the pathology of it, one part of it.
States. That they also have an accumulation of Tau proteins and amyloid beta, which is somewhat comparable to our Simon's disease. And I remember asking I was working with a it was a double board certified neurologist and I said to him, I said listen what if we start scanning NFL players who have had concussions and he basically said just stick to what you're doing I was like okay so I made it my mission to go out and start this process with NFL players and let me tell you it's really scary.
As scary, for many reasons one, when it comes to head trauma, depending on the velocity at, which you get hit and the impact that should determine the recovery. And so if you just have a light kit, you may not need a week recovery. If you get hit really hard, you should take at least a month off, but unfortunately, they're not taking a month of. So what you're seeing is just like if you were to get a hit and you get a bruise on your hand on your arm, if you don't let that heal. And then someone
And hits you. Again, it's going to be worse off and that's what's happening in the brain. This trauma is happening and you, you can heal it with the right mechanisms. We know that we can heal it by decreasing the temperature of your of your brain. If you can by eating a high-fat diet mainly like a ketogenic diet or having exoticness ketones it 24 hours after a post-traumatic insult. We can do this, but these players aren't so they're just going out and they're putting more
Or stress on their brain and over time, this then leads to pathologies like CTE, right? And it's
scary that is scary. There was an example here recently with a Miami Dolphins quarterback. Several weeks in a row just you could see, it wasn't even the hit but then falling in his head was bouncing on the turf. Yeah and that I think is even worse, right? Because it's that
Whiplash. It's the Whiplash yet. It's got it's literally your head going back and forth and you just messing with. You've got the
Have a lot. You've also your brain is very soft and it's just mushed in, you know, it's just going slamming from side to side with the skull. It's so traumatic. I'm a so I decided to not work with NFL athletes anymore, right. Yeah. I made a really hard decision and it's just too scary. Literally, a literally what I say? Yeah, for you. It's like you get sad, I get very sad and also because you see the back end where they feel forced to keep
playing. It's that's
A tough thing. Yeah so it's probably hard for you just to even you don't watch football. Yeah it's
like but also because in or if you if you were really true to what you believe in, when you see these scans, you have to say, the only way to get over this is by taking time off and by increasing the amount of EPA DHA that you're having maybe having exoticness ketones going into a hyperbaric oxygen like, but they won't do that.
So don't want to
No one from the team is suggesting
it no one from the team is suggesting it, but also it takes a lot of time and they will have to, you can't they can't take time off from work. Wow, they have to play so and if they don't play then they don't feed their families. So yeah, you know what I mean? So it's a
vicious cycle. Yeah, that is tough more practical for most people that have children, like sometimes I'll see my daughter or kids playing and they bump their heads or they fall as a parent. Maybe you don't immediately.
We go run out and get a brain scan, but maybe you could say, okay, well, there could be some some micro trauma here. Maybe let's eat a little carb diet or ketogenic diet. Yeah, yeah. That be something that could be
helpful know, that's a really good thing. So, I wrote a wonderful study many years ago, that showed that ingesting exoticness ketones, so ketones that you we naturally produce ketones, but ketones that you don't produce and you take them through a drink, this can be great for preventing
Trauma from happening to the brain. So ingesting, these exoticness ketones prior to going, and I don't know that if it's high-risk, but even if you haven't, let's just say, your kid does hit their head and you want to stop an intervention immediately because you've got a window, a 24-hour window. So that intervention may be high fat kid organic
diet. That's amazing. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. So, my father back in 2017, got in a bike accident and got a concussion. Didn't remember what happened and so forth. And so,
I just so happen to have some keto Ester with me. Oh, well. And so we are cranking that high and since then he's had no observable cognitive decline associated with that. But at the time it was hard for me to find the research but I know clinicians are doing this and have been sometimes. Well, oftentimes clinicians are ahead of the science, right? Because it takes case studies and things and then randomized controlled trials. But yeah, I think a lot of people are not aware of that and so their kid is playing sports or going to do.
A bike race where there's a high incidence or probability that you might have hit your head, even in Triathlon. I've seen some crazy accidents when it's windy. I've been in one, I used to race you know semi professional cycling and got a major concussion and have all these tools back. Then I didn't know and I made a really poor decision Side Story so I ordered in my business, I use Flyers. Yeah, and in the order, I wanted 100. Yeah. And the next it was, I've gotten this accident on Saturday made-to-order on Sunday and
I went to go pick up their print and it was there's 1,400 oh no because on the considerable yeah I didn't even know that I saw this guy coming out with a dolly of all these things. I'm like that's not my job. He's like Mike muscle Mike. Yeah Mike I did not order 1400 but I did because I have a mild
concussion. See what I mean? And sometimes you just don't know and imagine you were on the road and you just maybe not saw a car coming. And so that's, that's really scary in and of
itself, totally. So I think. Yeah, summary recap of
We are so far. People should get a cognos
Coupee. Yeah. Well, that wasn't my thing. That's something that yet dial bredesen and he's he's amazing at what he.
Yeah, he does. Now you mentioned EPA DHA? Yes, huge long-chain fats, there are some people on the internet to say, oh my gosh, these things are toxic, they're highly oxidizable. A
really? Yeah, it's a,
it's a kind of a fringe group, but I think they're confusing the polyunsaturated seed oils like the
Teen, carbon 18, carbon fats with the EPA DHA that are inherently anti-inflammatory and so we've had Bill Harris, William Harris who? Oh, he's amazing. So, the Omega 3 and X is that something that you
recommend huge actually are Mega three index. Can do many things that can first and foremost, tell you, if you have a high Amiga three index and this is 8% or more because a lot of people are in the United States are actually below 8%. You can
Increase your life expectancy by five years by having a high, omega-3 index. And what we're finding now is we have a report on risk factors for all-cause mortality. There's many of them cardiovascular disease met one of them now is Al omega-3 Index, this can accelerate your right to death. I would say. So it's so imperative Lee important to understand your Amiga 3000.
Index score, I'm at around 13 and a half percent. Wow, yeah, I'm trying to get to the same as a dolphin. So I'm ingesting high levels of EPA DHA. Now your question around toxicity. What I think that this comes down to is the quality of the supplement? Yeah we can get supplements up on the internet from God knows where or we can get it from a reputable brand and that then can obviously help with the oxidization and toxicity.
But from my understanding, if you're not ingesting EPA, DHA you doing yourself a real big disservice because it helps with first and foremost, when it comes to the brain, it helps feed your brain, what it's made of your brain is really made of water and fat. So you're really hoping your brain, you know, feed it that way. But also your brain and your cells in your body, the brain cells in your brain and the cells in your body need to be able to run smoothly and this helps with
Having a high Amiga three index helps with cell membrane fluidity. So we need that as
well. Totally. Yeah. And so how many grams are you taking of EPA DHA?
I'm having two grams of each per day,
okay? Yeah, I thought was going to be hired that's
doable. That's for G all day. Yeah, now my father in 2019 he had a right parietal lobe. In fact so he had a stroke it was minor but since then his cognition has declined immensely for somebody like this.
And for somebody who may have had a concussion, you might want to up it. And I do 26 grams per day, okay? So three grams of each
and then, so the dolphin omega-3 index, or where is
that? And I think that's around. I like 17%. Wow. Yeah. Now it's really interesting that we talk about Amiga 3 and x with Bill Harris, because what they're testing, there is the red blood cell. So the testing the mega three within a red blood cell, and if you go through and just do it,
Ray an Amiga 3 through a normal standard blood panel. They're not testing the red blood cell because our red blood cell cycle. Over it last about 120 day server relatively long Half-Life. So you're testing it with in there. What I see is that people go and test their Omega-3s and they're testing it based on maybe if they had fish the other night so they're not getting the true measurement of a mega
three. That's really important and what's nice about that test. It's an at-home test $49.
Portable very fun
accessible little finger sticks and it off. You get the
report. Yeah. And when it comes to obviously omega-3, it's not going to just happen overnight. You don't just ingest too or you have to do it daily and it's just it's incredible for cardiac health for brain health for overall
health. I think it's important. I stopped taking fish oil for a little while. You know we have backyard chickens and eat grass fed all this stuff in my omega-3 index index came back and 5.1 percent which is wow, really low. Yeah. And so I think a lot of their personal
Option for people is like, oh well I hate all these healthy foods. So therefore my omega-3 next might be high but when actually quantify this. Wow it's really I'm doing sub
par. Yeah they should go and watch it. I think everyone should go and watch this documentary that will change their mind about the foods that were ingested ingesting. It's called suspiro. See that is a good one. Yeah. So unfortunately a lot of the fish that we're having now is laced with micro Plastics and
A lot of other things and I'm not, I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I when you watch this, it's very scary to think. Well, no wonder we're not getting, you know, a lot of people are eating fish, but they're still got a low Amiga three
index. Mmm. And for fish it might be tilapia or shrimp or something that is farm-raised. And don't those fish that are, you know, apartment grown in that environment. They don't have the
same number. That I know that I have the same numbers and I also think one,
Thing that we need to point out because I get asked this a lot. Lawyers are I'm a vegan or plant-based. So when we look at a mega three, it's made of three parts, EPA, DHA and a l.a. Now, alaa is the plant form and a lot of people get this from flax seeds or chia seeds, but to get the recommended dose of Omega-3s. Just threw a la, you'd have to have a lot and a la gets converted into DHA. So it's a, it crosses a few things before it gets.
Into what you need it to be. So to have to just rely on a l.a. is is hard because you have to up it a
lot. Yeah. Yeah. That conversion. You're eating a ton of flax or yeah, Gia. Okay. Another follow-up question on the vegan all wait for that. It's kind of controversial but Angie huberman talks about how the eyes are essentially neurologic tissues that the only neurologic issue that exists outside the brain. And one thing that I found when people get a concussion
In, they can't see as well. People will say, I see younger and younger people. Now wearing glasses, they their Vision has changed, it is, I don't know, the reai haven't done the research on this, but we know with the olfactory bulb in atrophies. So people there smell changes. So it seems that a one way to triangulate if you don't have access to a practitioner like you in terms of doing a cognos Coupee annually, which I think will be phenomenal vision changes. Do you think that's a way to sort of assess?
The brain
health? Yeah, I mean so when it comes to vision and Android, it, obviously and you said it's two pieces of the brain. And so what is happening, is your eyes connected to the brain, via the optic nerve. And that's actually one of the things that we test. So as and also as a neurophysiologist, one thing that you get trained in is testing visual Acuity through visually evoked potentials and that's something that we do with the brain scan. So we're able to pick up on a the measurement of how well the optic nerve is.
Is processing that information. So, the optic nerve. You see the information, it goes to the back of the brain at the occipital. Cortex that tells your brain, okay? This is a lamp, or this is number two, and then it sends that message to the frontal part of the brain where it makes out the reasoning. Now we can see I'll after a concussion hit, they have a delayed. It's called a p100 score. Okay. And we see. Oh, you've got a delay or a prolonged. P100. Latency this
And maybe you've got inflammation of the optic nerve and this may be caused from a concussion so we can pick up on that. But one of a good markers is memory, you know, after a concussion in assess memory, maybe get someone to remember a few things and then yeah, poor poor vision is it is huge. Its resting.
Mmm. Okay. It's not really controversial, but I've seen in the last several years, I've seen a lot of irrational Behavior, not just in my own community.
D. But from a society perspective and I see obviously a lot of poor nutrition under exercise. People are staying at home or blah, blah, blah. Do you think that there's a lot more people with suboptimal, brain health and Society compared to maybe in the last 30 years, due to poor nutrition and things like that? Because there's a lot of impulsivity and reaction in a, this idea of, like, cancel culture and not thinking through critically. I know it's controversial and we have no evidence to really point to this. But do you think that
We're starting to see, like, accelerated, brain, aging even amongst young
people 100%. I was actually trying to knows. I've been researching some of the biggest problems in society. And then also, I was looking at the data on death, rates of 2019. And a lot of them are attributable to either cut, you know, heart disease and brain diseases, which whether it's a stroke and, or whether it's Alzheimer's disease,
But yeah, we are we are doing behaviors. Okay. I don't I wouldn't go out there and say, we're staying home or being impulsive and this is because of brain health, but really, if we if we look at the brain and look at what a healthy performing, brain and Tails, it is being able to sit and make sound decisions and being able to be rational and impulsivity is being you can practice, you know impulse control which is a cognitive state. So yes, I could definitely say that things that we're
Going to accelerate the brain aging process is interfering with modern-day Society. Yes, if I look, if I keep reverse engineering and thinking why I honestly think it comes down to misinformation and lack of Education. Yeah, so this is why I am so grateful for you. And what you do, you put out education, but people have to engage in that it you have to want to learn about what the brain is.
What it does and how to take care of
it. So, important with regards to impulse control is that the prefrontal cortex? That's mediating that. Yeah, okay. And then if we think about critical thinking, I know there's a lot of probably where's brain regions involved, but is that also a prefrontal cortex
process? Yeah. But then there's also different area so the prefrontal cortex, you know, sends information to different areas of the brain and the amygdala is part of it. And then we've got different areas like that are responsible for emotional control and
I always tell people at any given moment, if you are not eating well, sleeping, well and exercising you're going, your brain is going to fatigue faster and therefore you won't have the brain energy to be rational to think properly. That's what this is all about. You have to have the brain energy to do these things. That makes a
lot of yeah. And what about trauma? We know a lot of unfortunately young women are abused
Actually, and happens to boys as well. People are in bad relationships and stuff. You mentioned the amygdala and stress and so forth. How much when you do brain scans, if you had two people, one that was abused or one will, that wasn't does that impact processing speed? And all these functional
parameters. So, what I think that this comes down to is someone's, you know, have they been able to heal? Okay. And if they haven't then it just comes down to stress. And I didn't.
Named Brain
really? Because that's the biggest thing that gets in the way. That's what disrupts these Pathways from your prefrontal cortex to talk, to any other area of the brain. We see that. That's where stress lies, and that's where our emotions, our inability to react emotionally. Sound is the, it's this crosstalk. It's this pathway that stopping it and inflammation. Neural inflammation is a big part
of that. Yeah, speaking of neural information people have
Especially early on with covid. Just having a covid infection. Just and we all have probably have it at this point. Right? Was linked with accelerated degradation of the brain. There are some interesting research. Have you been?
I stayed away from that but when it comes to neuroinflammation actually posted something which is really fascinating and it was around type 2 diabetes and obesity. And there was a this study specifically was done in mice and what they found was people who are in that obese range actually have a higher rate
Of neural inflammation. And that was, that was really interesting to me because I was figuring out well what are the mechanisms to control this neural inflammation. So that's the extent of it. I try and stay away from the whole covid. I just know that long-term covid does induce neural inflammation and yeah. Yeah,
interesting. Okay. My all kinds exercise so much to unpack there. And what's unique that I think is in the last several years we're learning that muscle is a secretory organ. Yeah.
Yes, Lisa's these factors that go systemic and impact fat Cell release of stored lipids. And all of this, I know it's a big, you know, interest of yours as well. Let's talk talk about the importance of exercise as it relates to brain but also metabolic
health. I love this area. I think my account is going to be the huge, huge topic of research is something that I'm researching a lot. So when we exercise, we have a release of my accounts now. They are muscle base.
Proteins. Let's just call
them and when they're released from the skeletal muscle they can then go out and act on different organs in the body in positive ways. There's only one out of the six hundred Maya kinds that have now been identified, there's over 600. There's only one that I've really seen that has a negative effect but these my kinds are absolutely brilliant so they are hormones. Now when it comes to hormones, we've got peptide, peptide, hormones
Owns and we've got steroid hormones. So these are peptide hormones, so they're water soluble so they are some of them can cross the blood-brain barrier. And what this means is, the way that they affect other organs in the body, is we have these little receptors, binding receptors, if you will. On skelet on, I would say heart muscle on our spleen, on our liver, and they're just opened. And they sit like this, and they allow their for these little peptide hormones, just go and lodging.
There. And then it creates a chemical reaction, which has positive effects. So it's a bit about the, the breakdown of a Maya kind. So we know now that we have specific Mike, I'm so let's take il-6 interleukin 6, for example, this is the most, well, studied Maya kind it gets secreted.
When we have a contraction of a muscle. So when you shorten the muscle okay? And we contracted during a bicep curl let's just imagine it releases these markings of first one. We'll talk about is aisle six. We know I'll six to be this pro-inflammatory cytokine and that's well and truly true. But when it's released a specifically, from the muscle, it acts as an anti-inflammatory. So it goes through and it acts as a anti-inflammatory and it can have
A, an effect on our immunity and it can have an effect on different areas of the brain, which is fantastic. The second one is Arison now are assumed was only founded in 2012 and this it actually comes from the Greek. It was named after a Greek. God and his name was Iris and he was a messenger to the gods. And so this is what heiress and does. So when it's released it acts as a messenger molecule so it goes through and it can actually
Cross the blood-brain barrier and have an effect to go specifically to the prefrontal cortex and also to the hippocampus and it has an effect. A when it goes to the prefrontal cortex that has an effect on cognition. So it can increase our cognitive processes, the ones that we've spoken about. But then when it goes into the hippocampus, what it does is it induces another Maya cone called bdnf brain-derived neurotropic
Factor. So it helps bdnf, it's like a little Powell and it says, come on. You can do it and bdnf then gets released even more because it has the help of Arison. And when that happens, we can actually induce neurogenesis in this area of the brain, which is the hippocampus is, it's stored just, you know, in our temporal lobes, which is behind our ears deep within there. And this is where a lot of our memory formations happen. It's one of the first things to go.
In Alzheimer's disease, pathologies. So it goes in to this area of the brain, and it creates new brain cells. And I think that that is incredible and it can also have an effect on the sub-regions of the hippocampus. Wow.
Yeah, that is so amazing. So would it be advantageous for people when they're exercising to also be learning at the same time? Or is there a post exercise window where learning takes place or should just this be a maintenance thing. Like it's our turn, temporal relation here.
Here,
that's actually a really good question. So actually, there's studies that show that when you learn something and then immediately, go and exercise, you can have greater capacity to remember the learning that just took place, but this takes into consideration, adrenaline and other things. There's also another study that they did where if you sleep for 20 minutes straight after learning. Something you'll embed everything you learned. That's, that's a whole new area. But when it comes to aricent, I think this this is just
Growing the hippocampal sub-regions. I think this is amazing and what the studies show in humans as well, is that you get a massive increase of Arison one hour after you exercise and this can last and immediately, if you stop exercising, let's just say you're exercising regularly for 12 weeks, and you stop, you will stop the release of erosion as well. Wow. So another, you know, incredible Maya kind that we that we know and when
It comes to protocols. You have to be working hard. This is the thing. You can't just walk outside and get a robust release of Arison. Really have to be working and you have to be working at around 70 to 80% of your one repetition. Max.
Okay. That was giving my follow-up question. Is there any differences between aerobic versus, you know, resistance type exercise and it sounds like it's more based the iris in releases more specific to resistance training.
Yeah, you can get it from
Aerobic physical activity as well. However, it's more prolific, you get more of a release during resistance training and this is hard, right? Because you have to keep because you're one repetition, Max is going to change as you get stronger. So you have to, you have to really be trying hard at the gym. That's awesome. Yeah. Well that's
another motivator for people to push it because I think a lot of people have limitations or I don't want to get too big, you know, some women think they're going to get bulky but knowing this like hey I need to like
Like keep pushing myself. Yeah. And stay with it. You know, to protect my brain.
Yeah, there's a, there's another one called kept some be so, there's lactate. So, all of these have the ability to get secreted from the skeletal muscle and act on endocrine organs, and but also act on the brain. And if we can understand this, if we can understand that weight training specifically because you have to have resistance, that's what it is. It's not just, it's having a resistance against the muscle.
Against the muscle tendon, okay, we're going to the muscle itself and the more resistance that we have there The More release we
get. Hmm, or if you're doing aerobics would be like, sprinting, like high export because that's a lot of
resist. Yeah, sprinting. And yeah, when they did these studies with Iris and they showed that it was large, bouts of endurance, running high, volume high volume, which makes sense because you're Contracting your muscles when you do
that, right? Yeah, these are fasting, it seems like when it comes to bdnf,
Specifically and I love how you related it. Rescind to bdnf signaling. There has been a sort of bias in the research favoring aerobic exercise but it seems like in the last three to four years. The studies mechanistically showing my own kind release and this and that as started to Pivot more towards
resistance training. Yeah and this is because when we first did the relationship between, when we first went out and studied the relationship between brain health and physical activity, okay,
They could really start with rodent models. So you start with mice and it was very hard, you know, back in the 1980s to study resistance training with my. So they first started with getting them to run on a wheel. Okay? And what they found was that after six months of aerobic physical activity, they were able these mice were able to grow new neurons in the hippocampus. So that's when they first realized, oh my God, there is a relationship between brain between brain health and physical activity. So
it wasn't until I think the early 2000s that they really started to understand the role that resistance training plays with brain health. And they found that's when they found the Maya kinds, they found that this is incredible for brain health, but it's not just brain health but specifically in cognition it's also starving off Alzheimer's disease as they started to do more research, they found that you can starve off these neuro degenerative disc disease has and states by 20 years if you just
Induce these exercise
protocols really important, especially for a belief or carriers. Yeah, I mean is that what do you think about the risk factors? In terms of people with that? It carry one wheel of it. That
one. Yeah. One or two-year actually increasing by tenfold. Yeah. I think you've got the three. Is it a three year? Three times more resource for one or if you've got to, it's six times, it's it's devastating and it's scary but I don't think
That that's the scary thing. I think that we're seeing now, 550 million people worldwide are affected by Alzheimer's disease. And that number is said to Triple by the year 2050. And it's not just from people carrying or possessing the E4 a little, it is now. Well, then why is this okay? So if the pathology is Tau proteins and amyloid beta, which now, there's a lot of controversy around in this is due to fraudulent.
Study that was done in. I'm sure, you know, about this, but what if we, let's just say, there is somebody a perfectly healthy person who doesn't possess the genes, the E-40 for what is it? Why do they end up with Alzheimer's disease? We've spoken about it. If you don't get into deep sleep and you have more of an accumulation of these proteins, think about it, like compound interest over time. It's not just one night. You get a little bit of the proteins but they build up over 20, 30 years if we
No. Now that EPA and DHA can go through and clear these Hallmarks they can literally go through and ameliorate these Hallmarks these amyloid beta proteins that may be one of the reasons you know a lower Mega three index. We know that Arison and exercise Maya kinds and exercise from resistance training can go through and have an effect of these and maybe that's that's the reason why we're just walking ourselves into neurodegenerative diseases.
It's so important. I don't think people are as aware of the prevalence of this. And if you look at mortality statistics, just here in the US. All summers dementia. I believe this number for it has been for the last several years and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people every year, or dying from this condition and the treatments for this. Once, there's a diagnosis or not really good at restoring the brain to back to its original function. So I love that, you're helping us to learn. These tangible ways to get out in front of it, which is really
Really
great. Yeah, it's scary. And something that we see as well, which I'll just add in is, you know, in the neurophysiology lab. Okay. You're looking at a lot of demyelinating disorders things such as multiple
sclerosis. And we're, you know,
chronic inflammatory, demyelinating neuropathy. It's these things are now more prevalent and although they are sporadic meaning that 70 to 80% of these cases are sporadic mean they just come
Have no way out. And Physicians cannot tell you where there is a small amount of research that's being done. Now and I don't want to say, this is the truth of this is what we're seeing is research saying that high stress environments and chronic stress is leading to, some of these do my learning diseases as
well and we're also stress. Now she's chronic stress chronic cortisol, so so bad. Louis, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all this amazing wisdom and practical.
Tips. So you work with clients and then you also share a lot of content on your site. Instagram, if folks want to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
And definitely come and find me on Instagram. I'm very active Louisa Nicola and that's, yeah,
we're all your stuff is and people can work with you. They fly into Newark
and well, actually we're releasing our online program which is literally just an introduction to a high-performing brain. So we go into sleep nutrients.
Sandra and exercise, and the protocols associated with that and all the studies associated with, that is going to be online, okay? Yeah, and actually, we can make a discount code for you if they use code and Mike, okay, you can get $100 off. Awesome. Yeah, we
said thank you so much for coming. Thank you very much.
