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Bulletproof State up high for performance,
you're listening to bulletproof radio with Dave. Asprey as usual, we've got the upgrade collective in the house as our live studio audience. If you like to be a member go to our upgrade Collective.com and you get courses from me. My private mentorship group, dozens of calls, as well as a tight Community, love to see you there. Our upgrade Collective.com,
And today we are going to learn from a friend, just an incredibly interesting guy who's followed his curiosity. All over the place, from being an infantry soldier in the US Army hiking. The Camino de Santiago in Spain, climbing, the Himalayas like I have meditating with monks there and starting a few companies, Silicon Valley investor partner at evolve BC but probably most importantly, he's written.
A book called, love your self. I just think that like your what depends on it, love yourself like your life, depends on it. And this is a fantastic book about what matters and it turns out it's not money and it's not starting companies and you've probably heard of them as well. His name is Kamal, Ravi can't come all, welcome to bulletproof radio.
That was a beautiful intro.
I know this guy. Thank you, thank you.
You are a you're most welcome and you're kind of an enigma. I mean even the way you look you look like a nipple and you've got like this this cool hair and you're a little tan and you're just you're you're not made out of the same fabric as most people which is like we gotta talk on the air, instead of just getting a there are occasional chance to connect.
So why would you as a successful financially successful in Silicon Valley VC, I'm kind of making fun of myself to a little bit there. Why would you write a book about loving yourself?
No, it's a damn good question because I had I wrote this Kicking and Screaming. I did not want to write this book. You know. I say this thing, joking, with sometimes. Like look, if you want to learn how to talk to women, you don't go to Brad Pitt. Say, hey teach me how to talk to women, you know? Because Bradford walks into a bar and the story, right?
You want to go to the Danny DeVito looking guys, and who's actually with a beautiful woman who loves who loves him and say, how do you talk to about it?
So I was the Danny DeVito, loving yourself. I did not believe this was not something I thought of I believed in element, believe in the word love. You know, I was more for doer. You know? Like look, I was 18, I went to college in a full scholarship dropped out to join the Army. You know, I climb might and mountains of gold companies. I look at myself as a doer like a Silicon Valley like efficient like was built companies, get some stuff done to her and then in 2011, this company I was building
And this was one at self-funded myself. And as you know, it's a whole different ball game while giving yourself on your company and for that I'm doing right now. I know. I know. So, you know, you know that gave it's a whole different level of stress. And that self-funding that built it was doing quite well. Three years later run out of all my life savings. By then because, you know, building a tech companies that she and then it took us some funding in the whole thing exploded. And I lost everything. Like I was living up here. I was I'd done well and all of a sudden I was living for making parallel.
Credit cards, you know, living off credit cards, having to shut down my company and now, like, what am I going to do? And in that process, I kind of fell apart because my whole identity was my company, my whole identity was My Success. My whole identity was what I have up here to my peer group, Silicon Valley and I fell apart in there. And so, I hadn't taken him like a day off in three and a half years. I got really sick doctors, can't figure it out. I was, I was miserable like misery was a good day. I was, you know,
So Cyril, you know, the works and it was one night and also, one of my best friends died. It was just like a whole bunch of things happening and one night I was just
like, I feel like laughing about it now because the irony of like hitting the channel at the same
time. Yeah. I love how you put it. Yeah. I'm going to use that and credit you and it was one night. I was just like a Facebook and I was clearly looking for is my friend. I was crying and I was
Missing her. And as I can't do this anymore, I can't be this misery anymore. I'm like sick of myself and I just stagger on my desk of a solar energy and I have a journal and I wrote a vow to myself and I'm a huge believer in the power of personal commitment. I think any success I've had in life is because of that because I will just commit and I will be like a bulldog. I will go at it until it's solved resolved or it is it, you know, that's, that's something I've trained myself to do and I just want to write down something and instead what
About was a vow now vows the ultimate personal commitment, you know, marriage vow, whatever it about of oneself. I think this is is a vow to yourself and life itself or whatever you believe. It's helping his father came out. And what I wrote was it was a bottle of myself and the bow itself is in the book and it was like, you know, like long long longer than what I'm telling you and I remember writing it and it was I've worked so hard like in this moment of passion and that's at Peggy thought, where did that come from one second? I was like oh shit. I just
Wow third. Oh shit. I don't know how to keep this Vibe. Like I had no idea how to love yourself. So I was kind of locked up in my apartment. I was living in San Francisco at the time and south of Market and I just started like sitting on trying to figure how to love myself as I made this vow, and I was miserable. Anyway, had nothing going on, no job, no company like nothing going for me rents due next month, credit cards, you know? And so I started trying to figure it out and I just worked on my mind and I, you know, I have enough. I would agree in biology, substantive Neuroscience to be dangerous
So you know, and and I just started working on a mine and what actually really helps is the heart, you know, and started doing things inside and I notice that whatever made me feel better, I would further down if it didn't feel better, I stopped it. Or if I made me feel better for a while but it stopped I just heard. I just care about one thing which was feeling better through this to this vow that I made up of loving myself. And within a few weeks things are really shifted. I was actually walking around side to feel it. I was in a completely different.
A mind and within a month, my life at changed just, by doing this. And what was so fascinating was all I did was work on myself that was it and so, and so, what after that, I was a friend of mine who had been a coal-fired part Foods company of mine. I was going through a hard time. You know, the usual startup grind and I was like gonna do, don't worry about it, I figured it out. I wrote a book or thing and send it to him and said to a few friends and it really helped them. And so they were all like and then one friend, convinced me to write it down and what,
But a lot of people don't know, is, while I was building, companies, forward decade of his training myself to be a literary fiction writer. I studied the Great's obsessively took writing workshops, you know, went to Stanford to courses. They're all this just starting to be a writer and I thought was going to write the Great American novel. Like the one you study colleges or whatever. I, that
was my dream. It's still on my lid, just like, reviews, like yours. But, you know, still the non-fiction book is a whole different all away.
Right. Well done it. I have I
have and that was a train that gave me what it? But it's interesting, how life works. I set out to write the Great American novel, but the first book kind of working on was just to write down simply and true what I've done so that I could just pass it to friends and end up. And as I almost has a Darren from a friend of self-publishing, Amazon, a hidden underneath the table and it went took off and became the number one. Self Outback Hoboken, Amazon and I'm the worst Market in the world. I didn't mark it at all.
And so
that's true. I was like, before we before, we went live. Like so, where do I tell people to go? Like, I don't really do my website. I haven't updated that in forever and I all I do is a little bit of social media, so, yeah, yeah. You're out to make the good stuff and just let people find it on
silent. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I should, I move my publisher would be happier, you know, Harper Collins would love me more.
But, yeah, we both did they like it when you Market that's for
sure.
They'll be very happy about this one. And so, it took off in, like, for seven years that book that book on its own selfish, little book, sold over, half a million copies, no marketing, right? Are six years. And then I, within those six years, I did something that that I didn't know any better because I expected to do well. So I put my email address in the book at the back of my. Hey, if anybody has questions, you
know, me and guess what? I have they did heads of
thousands of emails, right? Incredibly
Feels like I'm a break and like break my heart. Make me feel good. Just amazing people really poured themselves out. This book as help them save their lives. But there were also questions because I never expect this book, take off and so I realize I saw the pattern the questions and I know that how back a lot. So, seven years later, I was like, okay now I'm all right, I've learned this. I've done this for seven years and I made a lot of mistakes and I want to share that all of that. So people have to make the same mistakes myself that I do because it's an internal thing. I let me really show them. So spend a year working on it.
Then publisher harpercollins.
When did you feel? When did you realize that you weren't alone in having hit the bottom? The way you did
a quick question. I think when I started in the emails from people,
you know, because Windows after you wrote the book, you're feeling lonely. No, not like you
put I was doing great. When I wrote the book the book was to share without me there, you know,
got it. So how did you start getting
emails the day after I put it on Amazon with any markings are getting emails.
Okay, it was the first bug, not not the current one but that the girl
One yeah, yeah yeah.
And it's like it was in fact that's one of the reasons why I wrote this because what people shared with me about their past, the child was I was like, oh shit, I need to let them know they're not alone. I need to tell them about my not because I need the world to know what I went through. I don't need the world to understand how I got through it and how I'm better through it so they can so someone can actually use that as a template. So that's a great question. That that was actually one of the main reasons why I wrote this and it was very hard. There were things about my child.
They're sure that like my mom doesn't know, and I'm terrified. She'll read the fucking fight.
My mom hasn't read your book
so it's insane. She's like what I'll only read it when you give me a personal copy of my God, I'll get to it when I will get to it till I had living.
You haven't signed a copy
for mother's. I like we're whether yeah she's waiting for a personal copy and I'm terrified of her reading it, you know. But that's such a great question and it's like it's so important to know. We are not alone. That's like it's years ago to Maya, Angelou speaks.
Eek and she said something, which I actually quoted in this book as it really helped me in writing this book and she quoted a Roman poet and she said thousands of years ago, a Roman poet wrote. I am a human being. Therefore nothing human is foreign to me.
When you realize that you will, especially when you're talking about the inner game, the other games, the same for everyone, the scenery is different, right? The scenery is different, but the emotions, the feelings, the pain, The Joy, the sorrow, the happiness, the Heartbreak, everything is the same, we feel the same. So if you sharing the inner game, you will connect with anyone through the end of time.
You know someone a hundred years from now could read this book and be you know, be affected by it'll be better because of it are two years ago. You know. And that that was that quote, really help me. Yeah,
that's really, that's really cool. Do you really think people will be reading your book hundred years from now?
Yeah, yeah dude. Yeah, that's awesome. I live, right? My stuff to become less. I'm in my novel, which takes place in Spain, I wrote in a way to be timeless. So I try not to have technology in their much technology or whatever.
Like maybe a phone call that
said, you're not missing a Twitter in your mother thinks
I can do mention the Twitter and this one at Twitter briefly on this one because Twitter will be remembered for whatever is, right?
But that normal for at least a hundred years, but
normally like, look like you write about health and mindset. I read your books, man, your stuff will be red. How do you spell now?
I really don't know that, I think we go here. You look at how fast things change and I look at, I have a copy of Robert Atkins book. Oh yeah, yeah, first one,
From 1972, the year. I was born. By the way guys, if you trust Wikipedia. Wikipedia doesn't know what year I'm born and I can't edit my page. So screw you Wikipedia, you're full of crap. Anyway, that was a side note, but this book, if I did just if I did just known to read it, then I would have at least discovered half of the whole ketosis thing. He didn't get the fat thing, like, the right amount of types of fat and whatever, but it would have been a major clue and I was 16, but that was only like whatever.
30, whatever that is like 50 years ago. But there's books from the eighteen hundreds that are probably full of stuff but none of us have heard of and we're not going to read them and you go forward another hundred years from now. And well you and I might still be alive and maybe it'll be different because we're still alive and waving the flag. But, you know, if we weren't alive like, wouldn't the authors of the day, have all the marketing and AI intelligence and all that stuff, and just like people's attention gets taken to what's new. And there's
Only probably .0001 percent of books that have been written ever hit that you read them a hundred years later. That's a great point. I kind of feel like I'll be, I'll be completely forgotten 50 years after I
don't think so. I don't think a lot of us. Thank you.
I think it's when you I'm a big believer in sharing the truth and I don't mean, like, here's my dirty laundry. True, that the emotional truth, the fundamental truth, you know, are you truth about what makes you better? So my, what I've been sharing about is like, what makes you better the inside, you know, you do a lot of that with your work but you also share what makes it better on the outside. I mean, the sense physically, when I say physically, that's outside when I say inside, I made in mind heart. Okay? And that's tough, the basic for stuff at the, unless the human body changes the basics of not going to change.
Yeah, they don't
so and often it's best to go to the source. I've been reading a lot of mistakes lately. And you know, why do you took right? So I go to the source and you find like a lot of modern self-help is just bastardization of all. What these guys are wrote. You know what these guys come in over 5,000? Yeah, I mean, it's been around is nothing new that someone's on YouTube videos telling you they just putting a little modern words on it. In fact, it's better to go to the sources because it's pure, there's a purity to it.
You know, it's kind of funny, a friend Jay Shetty has been on the show, he got just yelled at of a while ago. People were saying, oh, you know, you're saying something that was said before and I think there was a time when there were a few direct quotes from someone on the team or whatever. But a lot of the time anytime you are. I say some some common thing about self-help. There's a 90% chance that it's, it's almost the same as something that was said, 20 or 40 or 60 or 80.
Or a hundred eighty years ago because they're always true. And in the back of my mind I'm like, I hope I am saying something original here, but I have no idea. Do you ever run into that? Where you're sort of thinking God? I hope I'm not accidentally quoting my? Yeah, because I'm saying something. I'd
like some like what the poet, you know, I do. And it's at that is that is a job as a writer, is to go for the truth and also in your original voice and your visual things out for myself. Why does this book to so? Well, look, it's a book on longer yourself has plenty of books of loving yourself.
If your mom tells you a lot of yourself, you grab my grandma. You know Grandma tells you a lot of stuff. No one tells you how
What I did was I want to sit down and write the defendant manual. Here's a step-by-step, literally, here's the steps and it's not taking bubble baths or whatever. It's all in our work and it's easy. Look at me the day we do and it's hard - it is hard, it gets easier. But then you know once once you start to feel you realize shit, I was spending all that time and misery. I've even know it, you know, so much of our time. I think in mental time is spent in suffering, and I don't mean like pain suffering, you know, that's a particular kind of suffering but just most
A lot of human reactive emotions are suffering anger jealousy. You know what, ever wonder if someone thinks of you where she's just walking around feeling good about yourself which is not a bad thing. And I don't mean that in a narcissistic way, you know? And like when you'd feel that way, when you walk on that way, you're better to people in life is better than you.
You got into this, I have to love myself and you know you talked about the value made yourself but how much of the personal development Masters? Did you go to in order to come to the realization there? Or was this like entirely the tech entrepreneurs? It was just you being yourself. You didn't even
go for human. I didn't, I was too. I was into darker place to go for help.
And maybe that was the Saving Grace. I had to figure out myself, you know. I was like I was a bottom so there's only one way to go.
It's something that happens to people in leadership positions, right? Because everyone's looking at you and also I think happens to celebrities. I've known enough of them that so if everyone's looking at you and you're the person who's supposed to have all the answers in your like I'm kind of I don't know what's going on here. Where do you go for help? Right and the places you can go what, you know, and executive coach maybe therapist did you do either of those?
It's along the way or your mistake you stubborn
this started because it wasn't a thing that I would never get funded. Again I call my brother. I was like, look, man, like I'm putting his book out, you know. I know you have a huge friend, he's got a bigger broader than that and tag. He's like, you know, he's like do your thing. I don't care, you know? And and I literally thought No One's Gonna buy which is why I put it out. And you know the funny thing is
Narrator the CEOs and Executives like anywhere around a people like some pretty freaking impressive people that I would have thought would have like xiaomi after that. And they're all huge fans of the book and its really helped them
amazing. When you're strong enough to be vulnerable, they respect you.
Can you walk our listeners and our upgrade Collective? People are alive today, kind of through the basics of the seven minutes. We don't have to take the full supplement spring, but step me through what's in the book or this isn't going to be a value to
people. Really look the basic start with the fundamental like look, you got to make a commitment and I walk you through how to how I made my commitment here. So I could follow it because to do anything. Great in life, you got to make commitment and this is really worth it. Give it that month. Okay? Just give it a mom. As you've nothing to lose has. It's just your thoughts that you're working on.
Frank and and then there's another side. Welcome to, which is actually before you step in the future, you gotta like other path. So it's a forgiveness exercise that I do that, I've done that where I let go of things, what I wear of carrying the weight, I'm caring, it's all stuff. I come up with my own, right? Just trying different things in my mind and it really works. And then now, okay, you made your vows you. I'm sorry. You, you forgetting yourself. Now you've already met the VAC is now you step in the future. You have to commit to make commit that you're going to
Do this because don't do it. I mean you're worth it. If you can read this book is finding the 10 bucks, or whatever do this. And then the next step is actually it starts with the internal work like this meditation, for example, seven months long, I put in, I put on a song, it's got to be instrumental. And the reason why I met there's some of the long term as long as when I started the song, I just I was using the seven minutes long. That's, that's the reason, right? And it's Gotta Be instrumental as something that makes you feel good. See you
No mmmm, no, no, no Slim Shady. Get out I could get that would be fun. Write something that makes you feel good. And and then so what I do is for those seven - that's seventh time. I've been no, I don't need a timer to the songs. The timer, I feel light from coming in, when I breathe, okay, I feel light and love coming in and then when I breathe out, I just like, do whatever needs to go. That simple breathing in like a lot of Letting Go, I do this. Just 7 minutes on your
My mind wanders. And that's a great thing about the song. After a while your brain gets used to the song and knows when the songs coming in and when it's metal, you'll find your mind will say, oh my God, it's I'm halfway through. If you're, if you're wandering, will go back into like the, like more, like them up. And what happens is eventually usually, by the end, you just like, you're breathing in love for yourself and you letting her gratitude because you feel so good. And it's a state change and it's, and your and it's an internal State change that you carry with you.
And so, these exercise that I do throughout the day, which are kind of like that, but you just changing your inner State feeling, love for yourself, feeling light, letting go, whatever needs to go, that's all it is. There's no work Beyond, there's a different exercises to do it, but that's kind of what it is and it's a practice, you know, like for example, like alcohol throughout the day, and I'll just do like, ten breath, just for ten breaths. I'll do the same thing. It's just wiring rewiring why? I'm rewiring this one core emotion and feeling
Until that's us to run more and more on its own. And the sad truth is, if you don't, if you stop doing it, your mind does. Go back in mind is you know, the your plasticity there is that old stuff. All wiring, right? So you have to, you have to continue to working to make yourself better at this gets in layers on layers of what's really amazing. Is it wasn't just me, I get so many people talking about the magic. They use the word magic in the emails. Sorry I'm Stephanie here.
The map the magic is in their lives on this happens because like it's your inner self that shifting. So it's all about Shifting, the intercepts, the meditation. The meditation is just 1/2. Then I literally came up with, because I was doing this and I just happen to listen up, you said music, I thought, oh, maybe I can kind of, like, like connect my brain to that song. So every time I put that song and my brain just goes to that state, you know? And it worked
It's a very easy simple thing to
do.
Is that is really cool. Really cool programming. In fact, some of the music that you hear at the beginning of the show as a tiny snippet, from a song, I've used, like, like that as well. If you would have told me when I was 25 of let light, in from above you like what the hell are you talking about brother? This is stupid. Like you can't. You just make an Excel spreadsheet and figure it out. You know if you really want to be cool about it, you know. Let's use semi structured data and I'm not
alone. You're not alone in that conversations like this is evil. I
know,
Yeah, and now though, I would just laugh at myself and be like, you know, what an idiot. I should have listened to my elders because they would have, it would have taught me better if I wasn't so egocentric. But what you did is you didn't ask for help, you didn't go read a bunch of self-help books. Even you're just all notice that there's light coming in and then I'll do that with this song. So that means you're wired differently than most people. Because most people without being told to look for light coming in, they wouldn't look for it because it shouldn't be coming in. So why are you wired
different? That's a great question, man.
I'm insanely curious of all those since I was a kid. I always I just want to figure things out if I was told like don't touch the socket guess by K will be sticking his hand. The socket that was me Larry and I still do that kind of stuff, right? Don't you don't tell me, don't do something because that's how you're going to do something. You know, it's just you wired that way and I always want to figure things out and I'll try to value for non-traditional back. I was joking, but I'm not an engineer. You know, I was in and I was one of the very few people at least at that time, maybe there's more. Now, who's actually serve in the
Military in who volunteered
to do pretty darn rare, right? Or military people to come to Silicon Valley?
Yeah yeah and I like to Mentor, you know, some there's like these footballs why did you serve? I went to college for a year a full ride at States closed. Bored out of my mind, I was like this is it? And I wanted to know if I was an immigrant child and I have you feel like a responsibility is country, that's taking you in. You know that you really feel like a sense of you want to give back and I thought, you know what, this is what I'm gonna do. When I get back, I'm gonna go
Serve this to us so it's my country. Now, I want to serve my country so I left college and I joined the US Army was an infantry Soldier and it has an 18 year old. What a hell of an experience? I turned Fair, 19 and bootcamp in a Fort Benning Georgia and the summer,
that'll put some hair on your chest.
You know, you can handle, whatever is thrown at you, that's what the military. That's what that gave me.
There's some toughness that comes in there. Like, I've had a chance to hang out. In fact, you've been in the Himalayas, you met a lot of Israelis Union. Well, my God. Yeah, of course, I'll have to go in the military. Yeah. All go travel than the Himalayas are all crazy but you're all like
this crazy stuff. Yeah,
totally great. But they also don't have this kind of like hesitant fear that I see in a lot of people who haven't served in the military. I just haven't faced some tough stuff. So
I was talking with someone a while ago, in personal development on an interview and in, he had asked the question, I think maybe I was getting interviewed, it was saying, why do we have, you know, so much victim mindset and so much, you know, like participation trophies and all that kind of stuff. And I thought it's probably because we haven't had a war in a while and when we do, it's so compartmentalize. It is so cool. And I'm not, I'm not an advocate for having another War. I'm not a huge, you know, warmonger but I just know when Society.
Has to step up and you know you have to fight in realize either you die or you don't but you still go on it's kind of liberating. Do you feel like you got some of that
from your military's? I'm grateful for it. I really like, you know, the way I look at it is in some ways you know, tribal societies, you know where we all came from you. Right about this. It's like when you were a boy and you and you turn in your when you become a man in the try whenever the and that's early, that's not like 1920 that's like what for
in 1516 your sent out and test it and whatever way the tribe, tribe two different things, you know, across the world but there is this ritual of your tested you come back, you can hear your man down and the tribe and I think for me bootcamp and 40 training, was that at that age, it gave me that and I think it gives a lot of young men, that, you know, I'm fortunate that, you know, because I have a lot of friends in military who like, didn't go anywhere beyond that, you know, they spent their 20 years and
There's a bunch of Tours, long lost friends along the way and now, they're back and now they just retired but, like not doing like menial jobs. No. And I think that's a tragedy or the ones who come out quickly and do menial jobs actually like to mentor. And sometimes you know when I can like especially the really highly trained guys because it's a tragedy. You get these Special Forces guys who spend like tens of millions training each one and then they come out and they packing boxes at Walmart it's a tragedy. It's so I love to mentoring these guys and showing them
They're capable of in the civilian but it's funny there. As there was a seal of his mentoring and they got still inactive due to seal because annieek like, you know, I was in before you look up to me especially at Sea like, oh my God, right? Like this guy's done stuff and he's telling me he's terrified in the civilian World he's this is the last tour, you know, he sent me a text the other day is like yeah I'm gonna get another plane. Doing a young man's job and they're giving instructions in some random communist language. I've been would pay attention anymore off to go. I have to go do what I gotta do.
And, you know, that would scare most of us right where he's going to do. What he's got to do yet. He's scared of the civilian world, you know, because they because you have the structured Melcher, you know what you gotta do and you're so good at it. You know. I'd be awarded for if you come out and there's just nothing, there's no structure. This is the reason why a lot of fall into addiction so forth because you have no purpose a purpose within the military. Yeah,
that brings me to a question there. You talked about a Rite of Passage
Now, the military often is that for men, but men and women have historically had rights of Passage quite a lot and they're usually different. Yeah, there's that you mark your entrance into Womanhood, you mark your incentive, manhood at different ages or a different times in different cultures, historically and we've pretty much edited most of that out of Western Society. Anyway, unless you're doing a military thing or, you know, there's a few little little pockets of that going on. Do you think it's different? Oh yeah, there's a bar. Mitzvah is a
part of that and there's a quinceanera, if you have Central American Connections, but generally it's it's probably less than 15 20 % of people go through it. Do you think that it's, it's different for men and women? And in fact, even all the advice in your book like how male-centric versus females Hendrick is? If I thought it's fine to be male-centric, it's fine to be female-centric. Like there's nothing wrong with being a man to be really clear. But when you read it, like how much of your audience is women versus men? How applicable
Well, is
this far enough majority? My audience is women because I write very pure. And from the
heart, it's your hair.
Well, they don't have get the final layer and they're reading a book, you
know.
I mean that's I don't work at any specials with Alan like, but the super for The Blacklist card. No, it's actually majority of women. And I get emails from like, like 16 year old girls to women in their 70s and like this grandmother was
Enemy this great fan emails. I was like that's amazing that because it's once again the Maya Angelou thing, you know, the inner when it's I'm a human being, therefore nothing human is foreign to me. See in the work and I do write it as a man, but I write it very clean and pure as a human being. But you know, what's interesting is a lot of men who will tell me this is the first portable self-help book that I've ever read because they can tell it was written by a man, you know that like it's not the I don't have a ponytail, I'm up, you know, playing drums, nothing wrong with that, they're fun. But, you know,
I'm not a white robe or anything there. No white robes, no beads, none of that, you
know,
It's a, it's funny. I can tell you that you would have had to kill me to make me read Chicken Soup for the Soul for throughout most of my life. Just because of the name of the book, I'm like, are you freaking kidding me like No. And like I said, Jack's a good friend is only sold 500 million bucks or something and I would tell him that to his face and he'd laugh at me for it in a friendly way but because I didn't know it was in there and even though it was written by a guy I likewise even the font you use. Like this is a book that's accessible.
For men, you love yourself like your life, depends on it. You've at least got life depending on it. So, there's an era or feeling of a little bit of danger or something like, oh, like a life, depends on. There's, there's drama in it. So Kudos on the title, how would you tell someone who is eight? How did you tell yourself when you're 18 and with all the wisdom, you have. Now,
look if I could give this in some ways, if I could give this book to myself, are they 18 and 18 year old? Figure it out. But if you give them a foundation, a basic foundation on their inner self,
It's the best gift you can give them because the outer self the world's going to change. You have to react in all sorts of ways. If your inner self is taken is doing well, the outer self will always be him. It's when your inner self is falling apart is when you want to go to handle the outer cell, the other
world. So so on the inner self in your book, you talk about forgiving myself. So talk about the inner self first talk about, how do you forgive your inner self? Like what is your forgiveness process? Look
like the Forgiveness process. Is this what? Also by the way the entire book is focused
Some itself, it's not about others because when you're doing well, yourself like works better than others. It's really that simple. There's nothing, you know, it's like oxygen mask on yourself
first, will you forgive other people? Just not, not to tell them that you forgive them but just so that they stop bothering you. So to me, forgiveness is self work.
Always, yeah, you carrying the weight let it go, right? But the hardest wait, actually the funding of the hardest thing to forgive is to figures ourselves because often, for me, the thing I deal with is I should have known better. That one.
I always trust me up. Damn it, come on. You knew better. You should have known better. How many times you have to learn this lesson Kemal aren't just, you know, like that right. That one, tripped me up a lot but in the end I'll have to remember, I'm human, you know, we're in the nature of humans like on Wikipedia which as you know is incorrect because if you go you look up the word human is not going to have saved the word, perfect, right? So I remind myself of that and so the figure in this exercise
It's a very simple one, I came up with it. Once I was traveling, I drove on not another California to a lighthouse cut and Pescadero which is like where I don't have. I don't have to make this beautiful just open prayer. Open grassland on cliffs overlooking the ocean and I hiked out to the ocean and had a notebook with me and I started writing down. All that I held against me just writing it up, just get it out of here. He like he has get it out of because it's other words into the head and just beat you get it out of you and then I read. But I was writing and then
Try writing. I forgive myself for X up and give myself a why for every single one of us are very myself to get myself forgive myself for this, but this and when I finished I was completely done, it was like I'm vomited on this page right? And then I read it again and again until I was sick of it. That's done. I'm like I don't want to carry this way anymore. I'm done with this
was just writing it down. Did
it for everybody? Get out of reading, until I was sick of it. Reading it loud. I'm letting it go. I'm getting rid of the weight. You gotta be sick of it, you get and it's very easy, you want you to put it out and you start saying, you realize
She's I don't carry this, I'm carrying this. I don't want to carry this and what I did was then I balled it up went out and give it to the ocean. And you know what you walk lighter. I swear to you
setting a setting on fire is a very traditional way to do that and you write down swing, want to let go of you, do your meditation and you can do it in a candle, you can do it in it, ceremonial fire, whatever you want, but water is an interesting way to get rid of it.
It was, I mean, the ocean is such a powerful. Yeah, you know, you filter properly, just throw it and it's gone. The ocean takes.
It it's gone. Like the ocean, took it the way it's gone. It's no longer yours and it's little things like this. That, you know, we poopoo and specially as guys, we poopoo it. But holy cow to make a difference, but the key is you don't just do this and then forget about it and move on and you're back in your shit. Show up your mind, excuse my language, but it isn't often a shit show. You gotta work on the mind. Now you've given yourself this gift. Now there's a lightness. What are you going to put in there?
You know, get away proactive about it. You know the whole book is about why it is about like your life depends on it because when I was first doing it, I was so miserable. I was so desperate. I so wanted to be gone that it was like I was doing it. Like my life depends on, which is what I was trying to figure it out because I was trying to save myself. So it was like the metaphor I used at one point, was it was like if you're hanging off a cliff with your fingers, you know, the kind of intensity you will put into your into your fingers.
Imagine putting my intensity in the loving yourself. What would that be like?
It's a real powerful thing. I truly think a large number of people don't know what it means to love themselves. Yeah, and it's sort of like, telling someone without wings. Oh, you should fly. That's all I got. I don't really know. So how would you tell someone who's like, I don't really know how to do that or maybe I'm doing. I don't I don't have that connection below. How would you describe this? A really hard question.
It's a great question. That's why I wrote a whole book I wrote a soda because I want to go to all the nuances and that in fact, the third part, I talk about the lesson we're actually
Full, I write it. This is where I use my writing chops and it's all true. But when I was going through a really hard time at what I was doing in my mind, applying, what I just showed you the first two parts of the book and seeing how that affected so you can literally see the inner workings of my mind, you know, the editor harpercollins. Like why? No one's ever done this. You know, people going to copy after those look great. That's a compliment. So so I did that not because I want people to see my head because inside my head it's you know, it's a little
Everyone's eyes a little crazy, but because I wanted to show them, like, look, this is what's happening inside and look, you're not alone and this is what I did at. This is the results. So hopefully that'll help. But how do you love yourself? You don't know how I also. This is a very simple thing I do that became. That's almost become natural. Now, I call it the question. It's a very simple question and it starts with an f and the if statement is really important because you can't even mind can argue against it, right. It's not that Declaration of because your mind will argue. So the question is, if I love my
So if I love myself, truly and deeply, what would I do? And I asked myself that and when I'm making
choices,
That's really cool. And I have never seen that in a personal development book. I've seen some peripheral things where you yes Miss statements. But never if I love myself Truly Deeply, it's almost like a reverse of some EFT stuff, even though blah blah blah, that's cool. And you came up with that, just yeah, out of
intuition. I started asking myself that when I was like dealing with people when I was when I first did it and now I was doing well and I came back out in the world and I was like, okay I can shut the company down doing with some
So pissed off and all that and something with some angry people in their emotions and I would notice as I was reacting back by glory and I was like, wait a minute, I was just feeling so good, I want to feel good. So just ask myself if I love myself, what would I do? And I just started doing it will part of this you answer and then you got to do it. All right? You know if you don't do it, at least now you're making a choice consciously and when you start doing these conscious choices, you will shift to the better. You just will be our wire
away.
So, that leads us to another another question for you and it's around, shame, Andy right about this real openly and what what shame does to people, what ego does to people how it makes you fail. And all how many times a day or a week? Do you have the voice of ego saying? Things about shame in your head today?
James interesting. You know, the stuff that shame that I've dealt with, I mean, obviously there was the company feeling but you know, this this stuff could runs deeper these emotions that come up disproportionately. I've you know, a run deeper, they come from childhood or whatever, right? Like machine stuff ideal because from childhood stuff, right? And I recognize that I recognize that if I'm feeling too much emotion, negative emotion but something it's not about what's happening now. It's about something.
That's coming up, right? So so you gotta go where it is. You get a medium where it is and so when I started doing was but I would feel some when I feel something like that. Honestly his an exercycle more recently, it's not in the book but I have exercises like this in the book, but this is thanks to my nephew's. Whenever I see my nephew's, I always kiss them on the head. I don't know. It's just a conical, Kamal thing, you know, how you're here. You're my nephew can grab and pick you up, you see, on the head, that's Uncle Tim. All right. So I was actually on a flight.
Right? A few weeks ago and I was feeling some, I was feeling that emotion, that shame is something had been going through. And, you know what I did? I went inside to the child and all I did was, I said, and I kissed his head and said, no, shame, no guilt, you're perfect, I thought and I felt I gave the child laughs. That's all I did. I didn't Focus myself open inside, gave the child, what I could kiss on the hand, like a kiss, my nephews and I love them right. I gave my child that and you know what I did that through the flight. It was a short flight from like
Just know the California Southern California pre-flight and by the I just kept doing it for the fight and by the end of the flight while we were Landing, I felt like someone was doing that to me.
I'd even do that. We need to do that to me because I was doing that to the inner child.
We're still talking about that voice in your head and shame in that we're not assuming as an investor. So if you're competing for a deal in Silicon Valley and say Tim Chang, gets it what? Dear
friend? I love them. I'll be happy if you get
I do too, I have no temperature years. He's been on the show. I was hoping you'd be like God damn it.
You really get me in that vehicle or I'll get him.
Yeah, you guys are gonna send again, I guess he was a bad example.
Some way because it could hear me. But let's say, you know, you're competing for a deal and you really want it and someone beats you like what goes through your head.
It depends if I if it's an entrepreneur of help in the past, I get annoyed.
Because I like I do believe in taking care of people and I if they don't reciprocate, it does bother me because I'm like why why why be that way, you know, always take care of those with the carry that's and it just like cycle on so I do get annoyed.
If it's not someone I have I've had a conversation before. Yeah, it's part of business. It's just part of the game but you know, that's a great thing about investing. Yeah. You like it's a you build portfolios. You never take. You know, it's like you don't remember there was a New York City and let this big DC. When I first went out there for a little while and he was like, want to know why I stopped being entrepreneur. Want to be an investor and I said well because I didn't want to work for a living. You got really mad at me, you know, because I'm like look.
Is different than building a company making that was never built a company because you guys really took really offenses. Like I'll be work hard as we see. These are like you don't spend weekends worry about service crash and customers calling you screaming at you. None of that you know like it's not the same. So as an investor you learn not to take this personally I get annoyed and that's like you know it's not worth feeling this way and I drop it. There's one thing I've learned got it. So did all this it doesn't affect you much
now. Okay whatever there's no Gordon. Gekko going on
here. Now you know especially the work I've done.
I work. I do it allows me to drop which is just something that I've happens naturally. Now a lot of times we drop negative emotions easily or negative moments because I just I'm doing my practice when you're doing your practice, the negative stuff goes, you know, you continue doing it like a, like you go to the gym every day. Like you helped you every day. You work in your mind every day working hard every day. That's it. And so a lot of this, I think I'm a bad much better investor because of because I don't take it personally, my gosh part of the game.
I don't know for a while, I dropped it.
All right, I asked the senior Executives who work for me and certainly for the companies where I'm a meaningful investor and I'm not a big investor these days. Bulletproof hasn't had an MMA event yet. At that point, I'll be a bigger investor than I am now, but I have enough of a portfolio like look, if I'm going to put real money behind you, you need to do something that lets you be in that state of not taking things. Personally, usually, I just send them through my Neuroscience program, but it can be any
Any other practice that you want but you know, tell me how you're going to do this, because otherwise somebody's going to threaten the company. And you're going to take it personally and then you're going to feel threatened. And then you're going to act in a way that all of us wish you didn't write. And it's that, it's that chain of events. I know, because God, I've felt that plenty of times, you know, when someone tries to ruin your reputation or you know, there's something that feels like a really big emergency that you'll forget about two years from now. But at the time,
It's like into the world. How do you, how do you do that for your portfolio? Like how do you, how do you know that people are going to be able to handle the tough stuff? That's you have only missed us before you write a check.
No, no, no. Because I just bet on Kimball, this person my bed as well. This person will
handle it.
Okay, so you're going with your got basically, you learn how to read someone and okay. Because we have built
something, you know I'm messing companies when I was like Louis nothing right? And now it's a multi-billion dollar company to go from nothing to multi-billion Dollar. Company is a level of challenges you have no idea what the challenges were ever. You know. From do you know this was 0 to 1 million. One set of challenges, 1 minute 10 million of instead of challenge ten to a hundred hundred of, you know, like a billion hits, there's no training for this, you don't go to business.
To learn that, right? That's you figure out. So, my bed is chemical. Dispersant figure it out. Well, they evolved, will they be able to, like you said, build the right team around them, the mindset stuff. Plenty of a lot of them called me. Like, I've actually walked entrepreneurs off fires, you know, that's my job, you know, to be able to look at our doing
here on the board is definitely your job,
right? There's one company I really help with that and you know, end up having a really good exit because of it. And so that was kind of fun to be. The guy was able to just like, you know, they were dealing with an unfriendly company with lawsuits and all
Of that just kind of walk them through it and work that
the don't take things personally is is it's always a challenge. But funny enough, if you do this stuff, you're talking about like self-forgiveness the other things in your seven-minute meditation practice, then it's a lot easier to do what you're talking about which is, which is really cool. I
wish I do this stuff. I'm really a man. I would have been falling apart, you know, when I, when I did.
You know, I like my company. I wonder if I hadn't fall apart because I saved my company. I don't know, maybe, I'm going to handle it better, you know,
if there's if only we could A/B test the situations right but just like having kids you don't get to do that. Well it's it's always fascinating to get a chance to look inside your brain and I probably should mention if I got a definite probably, there's two people. I haven't mentioned that I Autumn engineer one is special, thanks to Joe polish who's been on the show.
Show really powerful episode about addiction. I've been friends with him for many years. He's the one who said, Dave, where I have, you know, why doesn't come out then and your show, I'm like, oh good points with Joe. Thank you brother. And of course, James altucher has been on a I've been on his show has been on her show and you can tell you have started a company together and he helped you get your book out the door. So we got to give him a shout out as well. Just love that man do. Yeah, it's a community. Great, great guy and such effect. You guys have the same kind of curious mind as far as I can tell just alligator games work he
and his hilarity.
Like, holy cow. I love this. Listening to him. Talk on anything in my life. Yeah,
absolutely. Yeah, he's always fascinating, it's cool. Well, what do you think about taking a couple questions from the upgrade Collective? I love it.
All right. Hey, this is Todd Dave. Hey Todd. Hey Todd. Hey, I guess the question that I would have is who is maybe one of your mentors that you actually looked up to or still look up to in in your daily life.
I think a lot of my internal values just come from my mom like sin, single mom, you know, raised my brother. And I had abusive dad and she left it left, our dad and said, look, I'm gonna not going to lose raised my boys around this around this as an example. And we were homeless at one point and you know, vases on no money, really shitty part part of the country.
Look my brother, and I turned out fine. I'll be both very value driven. I would say that, that's thanks to her.
You know what a powerful role model to have that. Love whatever it is you're going to get through what you're going to get better, you know? And you're not going to put up with like something that's shitty.
So yeah, kudos to my good as the
mom.
That explains your feminine side.
I do have one man and I'm afraid. Yeah,
everybody does. Yes, a question of size and I think that the best investors actually have a pretty good balance or at least the ability to switch between the two. Yeah. Situation. Have more intuition, exactly. Yeah. Alright, I think Susan, I'm using my intuition now. Susan has a great. What do you think?
Susan, fabulous. Thank you.
Really
We appreciate this
discussion and your authenticity openness and sharing your journey. So
one of the things I started thinking about when we're having this conversation is
about storylines, you know the story lines that we write for ourselves and how those end up
creating our lives. So my question for you is
how much of your journey was a journey of rewriting your personal
stories?
Damn ocean. Wow, I'm impressed. Wow, I'm impressing me, I mean, look at me, he's trying to Joseph Campbell, you know anybody that would be so I you know, writing your own personal, ours story arc, right? I've actually wondered about this because there is there are certain patterns that I seem to be play. You know, which tends to be like going through hardship and have a rebirth and come up with some sort of big gift in a for myself. And then maybe shit I would the world. This book, for example, that is one that I've done it again again.
I'm actually kind of tired of it. I'm tired of the hardship part. So I'm kind of like learn to like let go of that. But you know, one really I've actually been thinking about this is like, why not sit down and you like look at the events of my life and they maybe have a narrative Arc we've written around those narratives, right? Behave? Like this was good, this was bad, this is good, this is bad. Usually we defined them pretty black-and-white. I want to come look at my life and create like a beautiful narrative art for myself.
Elf using the same events and then be that person as a result of that. It's funny. I've been thinking about that lately. So I don't have an answer for you but it's an exercise. I'm going to try
Well, there you go, Susan. You just you got him to to do that. It's a fascinating question and I'm sort of looking at it myself to go. Hmm, you know you do you do here? That history is written by The Victors so internally, that must be true as well, right? We're okay. The story you tell yourself is the one that one, but is there an alternate narrative numbers, why does it have
to be the truth? Why does it have to be the correct?
We have the story just interpretation of events. So why aren't you take the same event and interpret them differently in a way that empowers you to go through a hard time and I'm bringing a and you come through it you know, know yourself as someone who's who oh, you know like as a hero as a truce as a superhero. Also for Heroes.
The other that
In fact, if you look at the Wizard of Oz, someone came through and wrote it from the perspective of the winged monkeys. It's a relatively famous book but it's very well written. Like the original and you read it and it like this evil lady came in and disrupted. Our winged monkey life. It's totally worth reading, just to go. Wow, you really can have a different perspective on that, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. This is a, this is a great question. Thank you,
as well. I'm gonna call you
Successful writer of fiction and Mia's. I'm still thinking about fiction but I have two more nonfiction books on my agenda first, I'm going to start thinking about alternative narratives for existing
things, right. It help. If you're writing will go up and see such a different levels, but fiction makes you stretch
and I'm, I'm excited to do it. It's one of those things where maybe I'll, I'll finish my CEO ship of upgrade labs and get that at the scale of, you know, many hundreds of locations. And then it's time to, you know,
dust off my fiction writing skills that I don't have. I think
every writer should do one fiction work.
Yeah, thanks. Alright, I'm going to take your advice on that and I'll probably ask you to read it before we are forcing to tell you why it's a deal. Well come on it's been a pleasure getting to peek inside your brain underneath your awesome hair. I'm all the upgrade Collective ladies have been just constantly trying but her this whole time
but thank you very much. I just
Are about to be honest. She's looking at going. Okay? Yeah, so I do think it's been fantastic and also I just truly want to thank you. When you when you first published the first love yourself, like your life depends on it. It was awhile ago when there was less willingness to talk about the stuff that you talked about. And then with all the new stuff you've added in the, the new thing you were one of the first people said, okay,
I've lived this and you know, here's all the stuff I had to walk through. So thanks for having the courage to step up there and just put it out the way you did. I think it really did make a big difference in a lot of people's lives and, you know, that from the way they communicate with you, but you made a difference. So thank you. And thanks for making a difference
on the show today. Thank you. This means a lot to me.
If you guys liked, it is episode, you know what to do? Well, you can always leave a review. And if you haven't taken the time, it takes to read, love yourself like your life, depends on it, do it right. I tell you almost every episode. Hey, here's an interesting book. Here's the place to go for more information, right? So you probably could spend lots of time doing that, there are books that are worth it and sometimes I'm interviewing expert on toxic mold. Like I don't care about toxic mold, don't read their book. This is a broadly applicable book and if you're just
Of self-love. And you don't need that. The don't read it. Otherwise there's a reason that there's almost 6,000 reviews on the book and that has stood the test of time and I think it really does do that. So, this isn't in your library, it probably ought to be and if it's just not something that appeals to you and don't it's all good because perfectionism is not required but liking yourself and maybe even loving yourself. It's probably a good idea. I'll see you guys on the next episode.
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