And I realized yeah, you know most of us don't change until we have to like usually something has to push us. Even if it's just you know, you see yourself in the mirror and you're disgusted at what you see and that's the that's the the push that it took but know most of us we need some kind of push. I mean don't we all have friends who stayed in a job way too long and really should have quit.
But they never did and then one day they were finally fired and they went. Yeah, I probably should have quit years ago. Now it's time for you to me to make the change but yet most people don't
hey, this is your host Debbie. Welcome to Gap year for grown-ups a podcast for those who believe you can take a timeout to reinvent your life, especially at 50-plus when you're figuring out what comes next today I talked with
Derek severs. I've been following Derek's work for close to a decade. He's something of an online Legend and I was thrilled when he agreed to join me for a conversation. We focus on one of his current obsessions slow thinking and slow living but we also talked about much more according to his about page Derek has been a musician a producer a circus performer an entrepreneur a Ted speaker and a book publisher.
You might know him for as he puts it accidentally creating cdbaby and online CD store 450,000 independent musicians. It started as his own project got a company per se so we could sell CDs. It was own music. He's sold cdbaby 2008 for 22 million dollars with the money going into a charitable trust. He set it for music education.
Moved to New York to Singapore and then to New Zealand where he became a mostly full-time dad and took a sabbatical for about four years then a year ago. He moved to England in the decade plus since he sold his company Derek has in his words optimized his life for Learning and creating and we talked about what that means he focuses on writing and on thinking differently and importantly on one thing.
Thing at a time. He's developed a philosophy of life and a way of living that is based on minimalism being very deliberate saying no to almost everything working on a seven year old clunky laptop spending a lot of time alone, but also spending long stretches with his now eight-year-old son. His website sivir's dot-org is minimalist. Not one extra line of code, but it's a treasure Trove of content. Be sure.
Check out the links in the show notes. There are hundreds of Articles. He's written maybe thousands his reviews of over 250 books fa Q's. Yes, he gets lots of questions about his lifestyle his podcast the audio version of his blog and more we talked about the task. He said himself of answering 6,800 emails recently. He got those in response to a very short email. He set out to the 50,000 people in his email list. The subject line was so simple.
Oil, but it was relevant. It said Debbie are you okay? And then in the body of the message, he wrote I care and I'm really asking so I wrote back and invited him to come on the show.
Oh and he invites anyone listening to this episode to please get in touch send him a message. He loves connecting with people go to sivir's dot-org forward slash contact. This conversation was recorded on March 25th, 2020 in the past few weeks. We've all been forced to change to adapt to reinvent as the coronavirus pandemic sweeps the world in this episode Derek shares with us.
How to cultivate slow thinking in a fast-paced and uncertain world what slow thinking means how he handles the onslaught of news and the importance of asking yourself? Why do you do what you do? Derek is a breath of fresh air right now. He's no bullshit. He's wise he's eloquent and I love his very clear diction. I wish we continued for another half hour.
As soon as I stopped recording he said oh, I think we're going to talk for another 30 minutes. Well, that was my mistake. It's my pleasure to share this conversation with you. Let's Jump Right In
Derek welcome to the show.
Thanks Debbie. I have so many questions. I'm going to start with one that I hope we'll just plunges right into the middle of what we're really going to talk about and that is you've optimized your life for creating and learning. I got that off your website. What what does that look like take us inside your daily life, which is now in Oxford.
And England you move there about a year ago. Yeah, he left New Zealand hagas into a day a creating and learning and Oxford. Sure. Well first I'll give a little bit of context that it was actually a career coach type dude, like about 15 years ago when I was still running CD Baby. I felt like I needed a little extra help just achieving what I was trying to achieve in life. And so I actually called Tony Robbins company because they said I know you got coaches there.
They assigned me a coach in this guy named Jared Rose was just great. He and I would talk every week. And so one day he asked me that question. He said what is your ultimate value? I said, I don't know. So he kept he asked me these questions like kept drilling down. He said what's important to you and I would say something he said, okay, why is why is that important to you? What's the ultimate point of that and then he just kept going everything. I would say. He said he would say and why that are what's the point of that? What's the ultimate outcome of that?
At until it finally got down to the final two that were learning and creating and he said okay, so which one is more important to you ultimately learning or creating both and he said no you one of them ultimately is going to be more important. I said, no. He said Eric come on. You've got to know what your ultimate value is. So we're going through this. But what I came to conclusion is that this was a trick of language like if we were
Speaking German and there was one of those long words in German that meant learning for the sake of creating for the sake of learning for the sake of creating then that word would be my ultimate value. It's kind of like if you were looking at teal which is kind of equally green and blue and somebody said know, what's your favorite color is it Greener is a glutton you could say no teal teal is my favorite, you know, so learning and creating to me are kind of two halves of the same thing. I think of those two like learning and creating is kind of a cycle.
You know, I like to learn things for the sake of creating. I don't like to just learn for the sake of learning and I like to create things that are a learning process in creating them. You know what I mean totally, but are you you've evaded the question? I'm getting to that. I just wanted to give a little context. So um, so I'm not a so I'm gonna make my daily life is not interesting at all that it's reason. I don't have an Instagram. It's you'd see nothing but me just typing all day. So I wake
5:00 a.m. And I tend to just type all day long taking maybe one break to go running or bundle bike rider work out for a little bit and I stopped to play with my kid and otherwise, I'd just keep typing until I drop it night 11 p.m. At night. I'm sleep for 5 or 6 hours and I do it again. So I'm basically typing most hours I'm awake whether that is answering emails or programming or writing in my journal or writing.
Writing my book or whatever. It may be. I'm usually typing so I tend to focus on one thing at a time. I don't do very well with this idea of a schedule where you wake up and you do an hour of this and an hour of that you're switching all the time. I really I tend to get into one thing at a time for months at a time. Sometimes even years at a time. I will just do one thing until it feels complete. So yeah, that's that's my day. Well, that's not I don't think that's boring at all. I think.
It's fascinating. I just have this image
of you hunched over. Maybe you're sitting up straight. I have a good time and don't worry and one of your things you are doing is answering email. So I just have to ask you that probably go on why and maybe even how do you answer so many of your emails or some number website like you've answered 90,000 and the past X number of years. Yeah, and we are actually speaking during one of my most intense weeks.
Ever of this in my life one week ago today. I sent out an email to my mailing list of whatever 50,000 something people saying, how are you are you okay because of all this stuff and so far 6,800 people have replied and I'm answering every single one of those replies. So the only way to do it is I get up at 5 a.m. And I plow through them as quickly as possible and I do that until midnight when
Sleep for five hours and do it some more and that's what I've been doing for the last seven days. So I actually just took a little break from answering emails to do this call. Oh, but you asked why because I think it matters. I think it it's important to people. I think that people are in disbelief that there's a real person on the other end. I think people have gotten so cynical with
Automation and corporate business or whatever you want to call it, but they're thinking that they're just talking into the void. And so I like to show that I'm a real person and it's also where I get a lot of my ideas. It's also where I've made some of my best friends are people who have emailed me out of the blue after listening to a podcast or something like that. I get an introduction from somebody who just, you know, satin listen to me speak for 90 minutes on a podcast and they send me an email.
Afterwards saying hey, my name is whatever and I live here and that was a really cool interview. And this is being this is what I'm doing and I have a question for you and it just begins a dialogue that sometimes you know, we'll go back and forth by email a few times until I see you know, what you're you're a really cool person. What's your phone number? Let's talk you talk on the phone a few times and then we say, you know next time you're passing through let's meet up and then we meet up and like wow you're even cooler in person. So honestly right now a lot of my best friends are people
that sent me in an anonymous not Anonymous who who sent an email to a stranger years ago and vice versa a couple other of my friends are people whose writing I loved so much that I sent them an email out of the blue saying that was a brilliant article. I you know, I ended up reading some of your articles. I really like the way you're right and we should talk and they say, oh well cool, man, let's talk. And so yeah, I think two or three of my friends now are people that were just Anonymous internet stranger.
Who's writing? I admired and so I reach down and we met because of that and in fact two of the great loves of my life or people that reached out in that same way and then turned into a romance and that you know, it's like so, you know, that in itself would be a reason to keep that channel open. But yeah in a case like this or it's like a lot of people are really scared because of them Corona thing and thinking her reaching out to everybody on my list was just really really heartwarming and its really nice to
to connect especially with people that have just been sitting silently on my mailing list for 10 years. And for the first time ever are replying to one of my emails now because I asked so yeah, I love it. It's exhausting but it's worth it. There's something trying to put this into words something completely counterintuitive about you're using the internet for connection and learning and
your
single-minded focus on the
Is projects you have going like writing your book and maybe I'll I'm not going to ask that as a question because I don't really know what the answer is. They're just something that strikes me. What's the word I'm saying counterintuitive but there's another word there we well. Okay weird. Well, yeah, it was weird. I think it's just that you know, we all have we all have Tendencies like who knows why nature versus nurture who knows if it's in our DNA whatever but just we all have Tendencies. So for whatever reason I've always.
Has had a tendency to throw myself completely into one thing at a time and I've been like that since I was a kid, so I think I've just stopped fighting it and I'm just you know going with it. Let's dive into what you and I decided was that topic for our conversation because I think there's just so much in it and I can continue asking you other questions and that is
this idea of slow
thinking
And related slow living tell us about that in terms of your own philosophy, but also your lived experience sure. So you know that feeling when you have a confrontation with somebody and then like an hour later or a day later you come up with that perfect thing that you should have said, you know that feeling. Yes. Yeah we go like it's got the day later you like. Oh, you know what I should have told you that guy well, so I feel like that
At a lot in life, like I feel like in the moment. I'm pretty inarticulate or just not that interesting. Like I don't have brilliant ideas. It snapped to mine at the top of my mind, but I get them later. So I think four years I would just pressure myself to say something anyway, and if somebody asks you a question, you just posed to say something but I think after years of realizing this I just decided I don't need to say
Anything just because somebody's asking you a question doesn't mean you need to answer so often now when people are trying to debate me on something and they say oh, yeah. Well, what about this and I'll say huh? I don't know. I'll think about that and let's say well, what do you think about that and like, I don't know yet. I don't know what I think about that. I'll think about that. I think it's just to me. It's just admitting
That at least for me these things take time, but I think this is a side effect of being a writer like as a writer. It's better for me to have a brilliant idea later instead of an average one now, but if I was a debater or like an improvisational comedian or a radio host or something like that, then I'd have to get better at being a fast thinker. So in that case, I would probably find a way to practice doing that like I'd say, okay, this is important.
This is something I need to get better at find a way to get to that more interesting thought more quickly. But yeah, luckily. I don't I don't have to but I did just admit to it myself. Finally that I don't have to come up with an average half-ass answer on the Fly. It's better for me to just say I don't know and come up with one later Derek, you know in business meetings many of which are being done online now, or I'm on a board. For example, we had a phone call in I've noticed
That the person who speaks the least often has the most power
more comes across as
holding their fire because they were only going to deliver it once or something. So I don't think you should change what you're doing. Thank you. I think it's working. It's going to go so I've been talking about this publicly for a bid and I got an email about a month ago from a guy in India. Who said hey, I read your article, but I'm in sales and if I'm doing corporate sales, and I'm actually selling software to businesses.
When they asked me a question about the software, I have to give them a quick answer in the moment. I can't say I don't know I would lose the sale and I said I disagree. I think it would be more impressive to the customer if they ask you a question about the software and you don't know well instead of you know Faking It spouting some nonsense just show that you're taking their question seriously and say home that's a really good question pull out a pen.
I'll write it down. Whatever you need to do. Say I'm going to find out the real answer for you and then go find out the real answer that evening when you're driven return to the office and then get back to them the next day when you've got the real answer. I think that would be more impressive to a customer. Then you spouting nonsense in the moment, don't you think? Absolutely and I mean the obvious question is here is for those listening. How do you cultivate slow thinking particularly in this?
Times were in right now. But
even if we weren't in this pandemic because that sure does not seem to be what most people are doing as they post their latest thought or article. They read to Facebook the iwi have so much thing on this. Okay, because of what you just said, right like the news is changing between the morning in the evening. Everything's completely changed right like the news is freaking out. What was true yesterday's false today.
And vice versa then isn't that a perfect reason why we shouldn't follow it. You don't mean like if it was true yesterday is false today. Well, then that's just a perfect in your face reason to just kind of bow out and just say okay wait, let's step back going to it. I'm going to ignore this and just, you know, give me the weekly update because clearly everything's changing every day. So
How about I not spend my time paying attention to the the flutter? You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I think it's an I mean, I think I know it's an anxiety response sort of filling the air and so I think your example in your thinking about it or are helpful because came up. Okay when I you'll probably mention this in the intro or something, but I was here with a weird situation at the age of what 38
When I sold my company CD Baby I thought I was going to do CD Baby for the rest of my life. I never intended to be one of those entrepreneurs that exits. I just I thought this was the thing I was going to do for the rest of my life. But then I just kind of hit a certain time a reinvention time is something that you know, I know he's a pet subject for you. Like I had my reinvention time there at the age of 38 where suddenly this thing I had been doing for 10 straight years had grown kind of toxic for me.
And so for personal reasons, it just felt like I think I need to stop doing this and just as I was thinking that I had three different companies offer to buy my company, so I had them bid against each other and sold the company for a ridiculous amount of money that I would never be able to spend in a lifetime. And so I had to learn about investing for the first time. I had never invested in my life. I've never done anything in the stock market, but suddenly it's like, oh my God, I'm going to have
this money that I need to look after for future Generations. I need to learn about investing and so one of the key things I learned about investing from reading the wisest books that the wisest to people said I should read was that the daily stock market is something that you should ignore and in fact, you should probably ignore the weekly in the monthly to that. The wisest investors are the ones that don't look at the daily ups and downs and they did it one guy one author made a mess.
For of imagine that somebody is walking across town walking their dog across town and they're walking in a Northeast Direction at approximately four miles per hour, but the dog is darting left and right and sniffing fire hydrants and pulling forward and then pulling back and you know, and if you watch the dog, you'd say oh what? No, they're going to hold on. They're going south. No wait to get back there. But the truth is you're watching the dog instead of watching the bigger picture.
Which is like no, they're heading Northeast at about 4 miles an hour. That's what's going on. So the people who watch the stock market every single day are watching the dog and getting all kinds of misinformation and all kinds of nonsense. That isn't even true or if you just slow down zoom out then you can see what's really happening. So I love that metaphor for the stock market and then I heard that I believe is Fidelity the investment company in America. They
Once a few years back decided to do an analysis to find out what common thread their best performing customers like had in common. So they contacted their customers that had the best performing portfolios and ask them and just kind of got to know them and ask them some questions and guess what they found the best performing customers had in common when I guess first, oh, I think I know they traded.
It less frequently. It's so less frequently that the best-performing customers were the ones that forgot. They had a Fidelity account. It had just been sitting there untouched for decades those those customers out performed the ones that were trading every day and every week or every month and I just I love those to examine so you combine the dog metaphor with that fact and then you combine that with the Daily News and to me these are all just the same bit of wisdom.
It's just you just ignore the daily stuff and you just look at the big picture, which is slower by definition. I actually had a still have it and Ira with a Fidelity something fund and I completely forgot about it for I don't know ten years and then somehow I remembered and found it and all I can say is you're right on. Wow, this is great.
Great. This is a great still not touching it. But anyway, well I have this image of you sitting up straight not hunched over your broken old. Is it line X or Linux last night? Uh-huh. Yeah, it's a style that it's laptop and I'm thinking what is that about? But so that's one question because gosh doesn't he want the latest Mac? And then the well the other piece of the so then again you obviously focus in your busy.
Typing but another thing you said and something you sent me was deliberate daydreaming is my favorite pastime. Hmm, and you mentioned asking big questions and even you know, thinking about what were your top three best times for most favorite moments. And so how are you fitting that in right now when you're typing all day long right now, I'm not and this is what I meant. When you asked that first question about like, you know a day in the life is that
like for example, I was working only on my next book all the way up until Christmas, but then my assistant reminded me that there was some programming projects that she was really waiting to be done and it was really holding back her work because I need to finish those programming projects. So then Christmas for the next like eight weeks. I did not pause to the book and I did nothing but programming for the eight weeks. I just kind of like got myself out of author head and into programmer head.
Just like dove into my programming code for eight weeks and then you know, this thing happened and I sent out an email to all my clients are right now. I'm just doing nothing but emailing this past seven days and hopefully I'll be done with it in a couple days and then I'll get back to my book again. So yeah, I'm not a well-balanced guy never never aims to be but those when you zoom out and you look at the things I've done.
They've usually been done in bursts. Well, you're not convincing me because that it sounds to me like you're very intentional. How do you mean I mean well intentional in terms of choosing choosing, you know, sifting through the options and choosing what you're going to focus on and that was another phrase that I picked up in one of your blog post you sent me. It says infinite options are overwhelming and then you go on now. I forget exactly what you said after.
But yeah, I mean I do mean don't we all kind of you pick a Project based on I mean, it's usually a combination of things isn't it? Like what you decide is worth your attention. I mean, even you doing your second season here at the Gap year for grown-ups. It's probably a combination of something you feel is a personal need for personal curiosity something you felt like doing but you also felt that the world needs this and it suited your lifestyle.
No, like this isn't a major annoyance for you to be doing this you're enjoying it. And so it's like this combination of something that makes you happy that interests you that's good for others that others are finding useful and giving you good feedback. And yeah, I think we all way those kind of factors when choosing what to spend our time on do you think we need to go through that exercise at the coach took you through isn't because I love what you said about the podcast. Do I need to be asking myself? Why am I doing this podcast because it is all of those things you said and maybe more
Is that something we should do be doing is kind of an exercise. Like why am I doing what I'm doing? I could I would have to go back to my notes. I could I think he had it. I think I'm getting the question wrong. I should write about that. I'm going to have to like go back to my coaching notes from God on it. Just kind of my own curiosity what your must that have been. I remember where I was. So I think that was two thousand five or six. Wow. That was like fifteen years ago.
I'd have to go back and find what was that question. He was asking because it felt kind of profound but the version I told you just now felt like it was it was off a bit. So sorry, I wouldn't wouldn't be able to help. No, that's all right. So I just saw him at the general idea of pausing which is slowing down to reflect on how you were spending your time. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's just it's a wonderful thing to constantly ask yourself. Wait a minute. Why am I doing this like to challenge yourself? Like even as I'm sitting here answering
All of these emails there. I mean I got to admit when I got way more replies than I expected. So what it's like 6,800 emails come in and they're just look at that with a dropped jaw. Like, oh my god. What have I done? Like I've handled an incoming warmth of like 400 emails before but 6800. I've never done this in my life. So I was like, what do I do? Should I just send like an automated reply? Like I could just ask you. Sorry. I was going to ask you. Did you have an automated?
Cut copy paste. No will I did I so I thought about just sending out every single one of those just in my database just kind of going like Bruce. Thank you for your reply. I got it. I'm sorry. There's no way I'm going to be able to reply to your reply. I just want you to know I got your email. I thought about that but then I started reading them and you know, I was asking people going through this as you said pandemic I was asking, how are you and it's like 90% or saying. Hey, all's well. Thanks for asking.
But like 10% are saying I'm screwed. My life is try like oh my God. I don't know how I'm going to pay next month's rent. And my mom is sick and I'm not allowed to see her and it's like it's really bad for some people and for me to you know, say hey everybody. Thanks for replying to God it would be so hard. So I looked at the situation and yeah, what I did end up doing is
Not form letters, but I guess you could say form sentences. I ended up writing some macros that I assigned to like the 26 letters on the keyboard like 26 sentences that I found myself typing very often. And so I assigned them kind of letter Strokes. So I'm able to answer each a email to read it and answer it in about, you know, five to ten seconds each and I've been going through the 6800 at that pace using that's
help me type out sentences.
That's perfect. I mean, that's how Derek severs would do it last name to refer to the the pedestal but the another one of the links you sent me talked about making things simpler and how you saw some mess of code about something and it annoyed you so much that you figured out how to do that. Same thing and just a couple
Lines, right? Yeah, so I thought that this is this is perfect. I still think there's if there's just this contradiction in terms of you being there in your little house in Oxford and maintaining quiet maintaining sort of control of your schedule and then that whole world out there but that you are in fact connecting with but but again, it seems like it's on your own terms. So I guess that's okay. No, I just keeps coming to me as and now that's funny.
Actually, I don't think I sent you this link, but I know the short URL that if any of your listeners are interested go to sidroth.org /s Oso which stands for solitary socialite and it's it's something that I realized. I've actually been doing this for many years.
Which is to sit alone in my little house didn't nature connecting with thousands of people per week. And I've been doing this for many many many years and It Came Upon me so slowly that I didn't realize how strange it is until like friends would ask me like I'd be in my room like emailing with people all day long like I'm doing right now right like the kind of mass socialize it like oh my God.
Debbie I'm looking at like hundreds and hundreds of emails every day with people telling me about their life and it's like I'm empathetic I'm connecting with every single one of them at the end of the day. I'm like as exhausted as if you had been at like a cocktail party for 16 hours straight, right, you know and but then I've actually just been sitting alone all day. So somebody will say, hey man, you've been alone all day when I hang out like I can't I'm exhausted. I've just been too so I need some me time now like but you've been you've been alone all day.
I like yeah, but I've been social all it's hard to explain, you know, so I know it's it's strange but it's some I used to think it was just a new internet thing, but then I realized that before this I'm sure they were like people that worked for the Beatles answering all of their fan mail, you know, and that person was just sitting there in solitude answering all these paper letters and before that the you know, there are plenty of people who would sit on the phone all day. They were like in the business. Maybe it's a booking agent.
Something like that that might be sitting in their office all day long alone speaking with like a hundred people a day on the phone, you know, so we've always had versions of this maybe they've always been like fueled by technology. So maybe it's only been a hundred years or something, but I think there have been versions of this for a long time. But this is our current one. Well, you're certainly living a version of maybe even a version to emulate of social distancing. Yes. It could it's instructive. I think gosh I feel
Like I could listen to you talk for at least the whole nother hour, but I know you need to get back to your email. So let me looking at our list of questions. Well, this is a good one because you are you 51. Is that right soon? I'm still 50. You still 50 so I
didn't know what month you were born in so you're
almost in midlife or maybe let's just say you are so the audience those listening are probably mostly midlife and older that's who than this podcast is.
Acted so what are your tips for them is in relation to and let's call it slow living because people are interested in changing and Reinventing just so many things about the way they're living getting off the corporate treadmill, etcetera, etc. Etc. So for that particular audience, and by the way, they may not be terribly tacky Savvy some are but many are not
Any tips that come to mind? Well, it's when it's a you and I are talking on March 25th. So, who knows when somebody listening to this? I don't know what day it is when you're listening but here on March 25th. It's we're kind of a week or so into this kind of world wide lockdown. So, you know, you talk about reinvention slowing down. Well, that's one way to do it is to be forced into this lockdown saying, nope all businesses.
Shut everything's closed everybody. Just stay home. Everything's just going to freeze, but it's funny. I heard from so many people in these emails that I'm talking about that were fired laid off at down and I felt so bad for them. And so for every one of these emails that God I would just reply back on Gotham. I'm sorry that's portable in the timing of this and it's terrible and I'm really sorry in like heart goes out to you and let me know if I can help them. What's interesting.
Is that as they started replying back to my replies most people said that they were actually due for a change anyway, but they were in a rut and that they they can now make the best of this unfortunate situation to push them into making a change and I realized yeah, you know, most of us don't change until we have to
Like usually something has to push us. Even if it's just you know, you see yourself in the mirror and you're disgusted at what you see and that's the that's the the push that it took but know most of us we need some kind of push. I mean don't we all have friends who stayed in a job way too long and really should have quit but they never did and then one day they were finally fired and they went. Yeah, I probably should have quit years ago.
So now it's time for me to make the change. But yeah, most people don't most people quit they need to get fired. So yeah, that's my thought on what's going on now is I think this is going to be a great Catalyst for a lot of personal reinvention. Oh gosh. I hope that is one of the outcomes it I agree with you. It's scary. It's a scary kind of Reinventing and most I mean most I mean yeah getting fired in itself.
On its own is pretty scary, you know something you're called into an office and told sorry. Uh-huh. Oh God, if you know, it's like yeah, I think changes usually not comfortable. But um, yeah this whole thing is scary, but I'm on the other hand, aren't we in Good Company like years from now. Everybody will be saying well, you know, it was 2020. So that's when I decided to take up the new career. That's when I decided to announce like the whole world is changing right now. So we're in good company Derek. I think we should end on that high note.
Note, thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. So very very much. This is just wonderful. That's a wrap for this episode of Gap year for grown-ups. If you're feeling inspired you could leave a review on iTunes. It really means a lot and if you've got ideas for future shows or topics, you can email me at the Gap year podcast at gmail.com. And remember, however, you want to reimagine your life.
Now is the moment don't wait. This is Debbie your host till next time.
