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Nobody wants to be anxious. Nobody wants to be stressed. So, I think more we understand about the deadly impact of stress. The more people are seriously looking at alternatives to just a pill, the trajectory that we are all on as a society, as a culture as individuals is not sustainable. It's just not sustainable, we're falling apart.
So this is an intervention. This is my own intervention. I'm going to take 20 minutes from my morning. Find it get up earlier. I'm going to take 20 minutes in the afternoon for myself and then the rest of the world will adjust. And the nice thing about this is so many people who come say, I could never close my eyes for two minutes, much less 20 and because this meditation is so enjoyable, the experience is so satisfying, 20 minutes flies by,
that's Bob Roth.
And this is the ritual podcast.
The Rich Roll podcast
longtime listeners of this show. No. Well, that meditation is a recurring topic, a theme, a thread of this podcast. It's something that I've explored in depth. With many people over the years, really a Litany of prominent teachers, practitioners and Advocates people like Sharon salzberg headspace founder.
Randy, put a comb Charlie Knowles Dan Harris, light Walkins, Guru Singh, and on and on, and on. And today I continue that tradition with a man, a Pioneer, I think it's fair to say who has played a very large role in mainstreaming meditation, specifically TM or Transcendental Meditation throughout the West. My name is Rich Roll. I am your host and today my guest is Bob Roth, Bob,
Is a man who first discovered meditation as a freshman at Berkeley at the height of the 60s at the time, ground zero for the anti-war movement and the many cultural changes that were sweeping the country at that time and he's a guy who has meditated twice a day every day, ever since today, I think it's fair to say Bob is one of the most experienced and most sought after meditation teachers in all of America. And he's kind of popularly known as
A meditation teacher to the Stars, he's got this insane student roster that includes such recognizable names as Oprah Russell Brand Jerry Seinfeld. Martin Scorsese Ray dalio, Howard Stern, Tom Hanks, Hugh Jackman and countless other notables. But I also think it's fair to say that Bob, would much rather talk about his work as the executive director of the David Lynch Foundation where he has helped bring tm2 more than
Inner city, Youth, and underserved schools across 35 countries as well as to Veterans and their families suffering from PTSD and women and girls who are survivors of domestic violence. Bob is also the national director of the center for leadership performance. Another nonprofit, which introduces meditation to Fortune. 100 companies, government organizations and nonprofits Charities. He is the author of Transcendental Meditation which is considered the authoritative text on the
checked and he recently released his newest book which is called strength in Stillness. And what's great about this book is it really breaks down the science behind TM in a very simple straightforward and accessible way as this means of helping people understand how they can reduce their stress access, inner power, and ultimately, build resilience, but you can't strengthen the mind. If the body isn't all so strong. That's why today's episode is brought.
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It's / role for 15% off. Your purchase. Bob Roth, meditation Legend, that's really the most fitting title for this man. I love this conversation. It's a little bit briefer than my typical chats. Bob was on a very tight schedule at the time, but do not be fooled by its brevity because it is packed with gems. We talked about his introduction to meditation back at Berkeley. We talked about his experience training under the legendary albeit.
Herschel. Maharishi, Mahesh Yogi made famous by The Beatles. We discussed the scientific benefits of meditation and how a consistent practice can help reduce stress and anxiety. While. Also improving everything from Focus concentration, sleep, creativity, Acuity and productivity. All the way to resilience. It was an honor to spend an hour with
Bob. So, pull up a
chair and let's break some bread.
I met Dan originally,
I would think to do of you would hit it off with.
Oh yeah. For sure. I met him at a conference several years ago and heard him tell his story and then I just reached out to him and I said I really want to share your story on my podcast so I went over to his office at ABC News. Couple of years ago, did the podcast. He didn't know who I was really but we just hit it off and
we've got would think I'm really hit it off. So yeah I
think I did his show then he came back from another I show again you know and
Assist. It's cool that. I mean you guys are very different people, but in a certain respect, you guys are both incredible. Ambassadors of this meditation movement, that is exploding like crazy right now. It's very interesting times. It's
like, I mean, I've been at for 45 years, I've never seen anything like this, right? It's like all the resistances. All from everybody. It's just
Jen. What do you what do you attribute? I have an idea of what you're going to say, but I'm interested in your thoughts.
On what you attribute, the timing to why. Now?
I think one generation dying what they say that science progresses one funeral at a time. No. I mean the generation that was very resistant is is passing, but I think there's three reasons and the first reason is has to do with stress and the the understanding of the impact that what stress actually has on the brain and the nervous system, the digestive system and the respiratory system. And I remember 20 years ago, someone said they were stressed, that the people made fun of them and to try and say that there was
Link between stress and high blood pressure was just like fall science but I think it's more than that. I think there's this desire increasing desire that people want to and need to perform at higher levels. The whole interest in brain potential of the brain and how you can optimize brain. So that's the first thing stress. And on the other side, optimization of potential the second is when it comes to stress, where do we go? You know, medicine cabinet, where do we go for ailments? Well, there isn't any
I'll go on the market or off the market that addresses that we mask it and manage it. And the third is science. Science, and more signs and shows like yours talking about meditation. Making it more familiar. Lots of times just hearing about it, just hearing about it. What do you think is reason?
Well, I think stresses is probably number one. I mean we're in an epidemic of of stress right now. It's a stress field culture, most people, when you ask them how they're doing, they're going to tell you they're stressed and I think that goes hand-in-hand with
Oppression which is quickly becoming you know basically our number one disability. Yeah and people are starting to wake up to the fact that the pills that they're popping are really not working. Yeah, that's there temporarily masking symptoms that lead to side effects and other problems that compound
when you say stress do, would you throw an anxiety? Is
that sounds weird I would I would characterize that as a subset of stress
because that's one thing that I was I was talking with some mothers.
As parents and they said who are more and more people are learning coming to learn to meditate as fast as a whole family, not just the kid or the parent. But the whole family and they are very concerned about their kids, because they're so anxious about everything, which is insane.
No, you shouldn't be, no, not be the situation.
I know what they're just, they're just, they're worried about school. They're worried about how many clicks they have the in just everything. They're just and I gave a talk in New Jersey.
I was giving a talk to some teachers School teachers and they said, we'll come into our second grade second grade classes. They brought 60 second graders together, talk to them about meditation. That's okay, that's an interesting one. And my first question was, how many of you feel anxious? Every hand went up. It's heartbreaking, second graders. How many of you have difficulty sleeping half? The second graders. So where I think genuinely were in danger, danger of losing a generation. I mean, a generation spans from that all the way up to college.
Kids. And I think that's a reason that's fueling the interest in meditation because there's got to be something else, right? Then than just
medicine. Well, it's got to be
sort of, not
vindicating. That's the wrong word. Has kind of a pejorative flare to it, but sort of interesting for you as somebody who's been in this for 40 years, would probably see this mushroom cloud. You know sort of expanding awareness and and openness to these ideas that you've been talking about for so long. And
It cuts across all demographics, it even cuts across put left or right politics. Mmm. Nobody wants to be anxious, nobody wants to be stressed. And now we know when you have high levels of anxiety than your body, did renal secrete cortisol and when you cortisol is a stress hormone, it floods, the hippocampus in the brain, which is a Memory Center. So when that's the reason why, if you're anxious about something, you can't remember, you know, kid goes to school and they've studied hard and they go anxious and there.
Hippocampus shuts down and then they can't remember anything and it's the same with the athlete, you know, who can hit the jump shot over and over and over again, when they're just, there's no pressure but when they're pressure, you freeze. So I think more we understand about the deadly impact of stress. The more people are seriously looking at alternatives to just a pill. Yeah,
the cortisol production aspect of it is super interesting. I was reading that sleep, only reduces your
Those ten to twenty percent but meditation specifically TM can reduce it 30 to 40%. Yeah, this is backed up by the studies that you guys are.
Yeah, published research and and now used to be complicated to get cortisol levels. You know yet to take saliva but you can get it from hair and get it from a sample of hair. And so we're looking at with kids to see. Now we have a program going on, in the Chicago Public Schools. Should I go into that? Yeah, so the University of Chicago crime lab.
Which is a Premier Research institution three years ago or two years ago was very concerned about the number of the crime and the violence in these toughest schools in Chicago. And so they put out what's called an RFP request for proposals and to Grassroots, organizations in Chicago and we have offices, David Lynch Foundation has offices all over the country, so, 230 organizations, submitted proposals, gardening, and all these different things and we submitted something called quiet time, a proposal where you begin and end each school day,
50 10 to 15 minutes of meditation and they accepted, we were one of three so they gave us $300,000 for us. A lot of money for something. Maybe not was so successful. Last year, they increased it to a million dollars and it was so successful. This year, they increased it to another 2.6 million dollars and the findings have been so marked in terms of reducing arrests, among meditating school kids improving attendance and other school programs have found improved academic performance test. Scores close,
Aging of the achievement gap between people of color and the white population. So huge transformation and I really think that I never would have thought this a few years ago, I think within a few years, quiet time or meditation is going to be. It's about voluntary, but it's going to be offered in schools.
That's remarkable. Wow, that's crazy. What is the, the sort of onboarding process of trying to just acclimate kids in that scenario to just being open to the idea of even doing it to begin with? Well,
But I have learned and I know you do. What type of you do in mindfulness? Yes, I think so there are and at some point we can talk about but there's three
basic time after this conversation, I'm probably going to be signing up for my. Yeah, I'm glass with you. Let's go
ahead. Yeah, the thing is there's three different. According to research, there's three basic types of meditation because, we know that every experience changes the brain in a distinct way. You listen, to classical music has a different impact and if you listen to electronic music. So or you watch a horror movie,
Romantic comedy. So they know. Now from research that the three basic types of meditation. Based on what you do, one is called focused attention, and that's a concentration form of meditation. That's your classic clear? Your mind of thoughts or concentrate on your breath or a mantra, but it's a focus, its hard work and that creates something called Theta. Excuse me, gamma brain waves and particularly the front left. Prefrontal cortex. And that is is too much
detail. No, no, please 2250.
Cycles. Per second means you're concentrating. When your kid is studying hard for an exam, a lot of gamma brand, right. You hope he's studying hard second is called open monitoring and their many mindfulness techniques in this and that is an observational tool. Where You observe your thoughts? You observe, you do a body scan You observe Sensations in your body, You observe the environment. You have a dispassionate stepping back witnessing. And in that witnessing, there's an Equanimity, you're not caught up in the moment that
Create something called Theta brain waves which is a pre onset dream. That's six to eight cycles per second and the third is transcendent self-transcending and that is no effort completely effortless. And that is accessing, not minding the thoughts but accessing a field of calm that already exists within everyone. That's the
hypothesis. So perhaps this would be a good moment to just Define Transcendental Meditation in the context of that.
And what it is about that practice that allows you to enter that self-transcendent
state. So I like to use an example of an ocean where you're stuck. You're in a little boat and you're stuck on the middle of the Pacific Ocean and you get these humongous, waves, 30, 40, foot, high waves, and you could think the whole ocean is in upheaval, but if you could do a cross section of the ocean out there, you realize you got these little itty bitty 30-foot waves but the ocean and reality is over a mile deep. And while the
To the ocean. Maybe turbulent, the depth of the ocean is by its nature silent and that's analogous to the mind. So the surface of the mind is as active thinking mind got a got a, got a monkey mind all that and every human being thinks it sometimes I like to have some inner calm submitter, quiets I mean her he's some inner silence, some in her focus and the operative word there is inner. And the question is, is there such a thing as an inner? And if so, how do you get there? So Rick, when we talk about Transcendental Meditation,
As I said, a moment ago we hypothesize because there's no belief, there's no philosophy here, the deep within you and your wife and every other person, you know, and everyone in the world right now, there's a level of the Mind deep within Transcendent level of the mind that is already calm, quiet peaceful and yet the source of our creativity intelligence happiness and Transcendental Meditation gives effortless access to that. How should I answer that?
Yeah. How because I'm thinking when you're describing
The other, the other methodology of kind of noticing your thoughts and being the dispassionate neutral, Observer of the meanderings of the mind, that probably best describes my experience. So what are we
doing? So in that in that it's a cognitive process it's attending and adjusting to, you could say the waves. So focused attention, is stop the waves, the ideas and thoughts,
or on the surface, you're on the
surface and the same with this, when
You're stepping back and observing the thoughts or observe, you're still on the surface in Transcendental Meditation. We recognize or we identified that there's a vertical Dimension to the mind that we feel things. Deeply you love your wife, deeply. You don't want to do something profoundly there. There's that, there's that feeling of of sign-in athlete, you're an athlete. There must be moments of the Zone. Sure, that goes Way Beyond what's up here? And there's just this pervasive silence and so that quiet
Calm that we access in during meditation, Transcendental Meditation. And I'll tell you how we do that effortlessly. So, other approaches to meditation, see, thoughts, or the wandering mind as a not the enemy, but sort of the, the obstacle to a calm mind. So if you could control the mind, it's a, it's a monkey mind. It just wanders, and you've got to rein it in, or you've got to give more space between thoughts, or and Maharishi. Mahesh
Yes, Yogi, who was a physicist who became a great meditation teacher. His Insight was the mind is not wandering. Aimlessly your mind is not just a monkey mind, your mind is in search of something more satisfying, you sit in a room, and you listen to some wretched music and some beautiful music comes on. In the other room, your attention is drawn to that music. You bring two books on vacation in one book is terrible and you can't read it. Another book is great absorbed in it for hours, it is.
A
lot people say, well, it's an acquired skill to meditate to do this mindfulness. It's not an acquired skill to listen to the most beautiful music, you've heard in your life. It's not an acquired skill to see the most beautiful sunset you've ever seen in your life. The you're drawn to that and the idea or the hypothesis again I use that term. Is it inside of everyone in that Transcendent level of the mind is a field of satisfaction quiet Bliss peace.
This happiness, all the people talked about forever in Transcendental Meditation, you learn how to give the attention. I know this is abstract but you learn how to give the attention of the Mind in inward Direction? Like you want to teach a child, how to dive you say, honey, stand like this, bend over like that rest is automatic. There's no forcing gravity takes over. So when you learn TM from a teacher you learn how to just allow the attention of your mind to be drawn Inward and without any effort is
In
fact, any effort stops the process without any effort, your mind is just gently settles down. And when that happens, then you have alpha 1 brain waves, completely different than mindfulness, and I want to talk a little bit more of that. Some of the other brain, research your body, gains his deep state of rest, cortisol levels are reduced and you feel rejuvenated. Do I think there's a role it for other? Do I think TM is the only way, of course not, of course,
not, but in TM. So what
I gather from this description is that on some level? It's about attenuating that effort, right? Because the mind is always searching to
do you. Give it something more satisfying to go. For. If, if you, if you're going, if you're sitting in front of the TV and you got 20, horrible shows, you just click and you can't. But if there's a great show and someone says, oh my God, you lost it. You get you care about, you can't stop. So that's the mind with nothing. Satisfying, on that horizontal level, nothing is that
But you the Transcendent just beneath the waves and increasingly. So there's just that calm that silence that is very attractive. And how do you access that? And that's where the personal instruction. TM is never taught in just out of a book because if I teach you or a teacher teaches you, it's how do you have that innocence? How do you just let your attention turn within and then afterwards people go oh my God, I had no idea. Hmm. And 20 minutes.
Goes by quickly not like
painfully. So then how, what is your perspective then on, on all of these apps that are popping up? That are introducing people to meditation, they do that the intricacy. Yeah, but on some level, I mean, I would imagine there's good in that, right? You're sort of co-opting this device of distraction and, and and I think everything will use it in a more positive way,
everything has a role and I teach a lot of people who've done, headspace or calm, or these things, and it was a big help, and then they did it for a while.
I said, well, is there something more? Because mine looks for something more, right? So, I think their entry entry and for if it works for a person, it works for person
but but there's something about that. It's
never an issue if we're going to be transcended. Yeah, and even we've tried teaching it online or something like that. There's something about you're in the room with the teacher 1214 that first hour. And then I'm with and there's nobody else in the room. It's and then when I'm with that person, and it can be yours.
Selfie could be CEO of a company. It could be a professor, it could be a homeless kid and they have the same experience to eat every one of them can transcend equally
well, right? And and the distinguishing thing here or one of the distinguishing things here is that rather than focusing on your breath, or noticing your thoughts, as they come and go. Your intention is on this Mantra that
you work, e. It's actually the Mantra is the vehicle. The difference is you're sitting in the you're
In Los Angeles and it's hot and horrible mantras like a car that takes you to the beach. So the car is not the end in itself. Concentrating on a mantra that the Mantra is a vehicle that takes you to the ocean. The the Mantra is a vehicle that takes you to your inner calm. So the Transformations that take place in TM and the changes in brain is not from the repetition of the Mantra is from accessing those Realms within those.
Calm settled levels of the mind, which we occasionally rarely access, you know, again when you're running or when you're listening to music or you hold a newborn baby in your arms and Time Slips Away or you're with your partner and there's just a moment of unity, that's got nothing to do with breath thought, anything it's just silence.
So let's that's interesting. Let's track back to how you got into this to begin with?
All goes back to like, get it out of there. No flower power age in 1968 of Berkeley, right? Well, the
funny thing is, is I tell people when you think of what a meditation teacher would be traditional, I hate that guy.
No, I know that's why we were talking about, Dan Harris. Like how icon lets you sort of like him? I'm a natural skeptic. Yeah, so I grew up, I
was born in Washington DC. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area and my father had been in this won't be long when I was 2 years. Do we go as long as you want by the
way. So my father
will be putting your
Audience to sleep. My father was in World War Two, he was injured, War veteran, he got a job in San Francisco at the VA hospital for Miley. So, we moved out the age of three and I had a very political family. My parents talked politics all the time, and I debated issues and I tell people that when I was growing up, I knew I was a Democrat before I knew I was Jewish. Because that's what we just talked about that all the time. Now I vote for the person after party, but
And I had, I remember in high school. I worked for Bobby, Kennedy, 50 years ago, today, I was working for Bobby Kennedy to be to get the Democratic National, you know, the part presidential nomination and I had a column in my high school newspaper in Marin County and in Redwood High School. And it was, I was a co-editor of my paper and the column was called The Grapes of Wrath. So that was the 60. That was 68. You just complaining about everything?
So Bobby Kennedy he was assassinated and it like destroyed my life. Well I he was my hero. He was, he was whatever as a 17 year old kid. I went to Berkeley in October September, 1968 with the intention of going to law school to become a u.s. senator like Bobby Kennedy. I want to change the world. I was interested in Social transformation. I was interested in equal access, you know, just everybody should have an equal shot. It shouldn't matter. What gender would color you get.
The equal what you do with it, is your own doing. So I go to Berkeley and it's
insane, right? Had to just be
banana saying and I wasn't crazy person. I wasn't a druggie. I was just a guy who when activists who wanted to do good and suddenly I realized that
Politics, one going to heal the soul, the country. Just going to be more divisive. So then I thought, what am I going to do? And my mother was an educator. So I thought all right, educational curriculum and work with kindergarteners and and build up from there.
It's interesting that you had that reaction because it could have gone the other way and just confirmed your resolve to get even deeper
into politics. He was too much compromise. By that time there was this thing of I had to be absolutely true to myself. You know what?
Was most important with authenticity and I was already, I saw on both sides left and right too much violence, too much destruction, on the left destruction, towards women on their, I mean just destructive behavior. And so I
parallels with what's going on right now.
Yeah. And we have an office in on Capitol Hill, the foundation. Do I teach people on Capitol Hill? We can talk about that. But so I'm stressed and I had a friend who was like a normal guy who said you should learn Transcendental Meditation and I see
I said, first of all, isn't a word in my vocabulary and I also said I got enough issues of my own religion and he said, no, you don't have to believe in anything, because I'm a skeptical. Pretty enough to believe in anything. Try it. And I learned it, and it was so marked. It was because I tried other things and it was such a deep relaxation and such a Transcendent moment. Completely awake. I didn't go anywhere and one of my first thoughts was, oh, I'd like to teach this, the inner-city school kids wasn't. I want to get enlightened?
Yeah. I mean from
From the way you describe it in the book, which I love by the way, I just got, I'm just started it. But I skip to the last chapter to read, you know, where you tell your personal story, it seemed like you had that response right from the get-go. Like this was from the very, very first experience with
and I don't it was an innocent sort of thought it wasn't like, oh, now in my Five-Year Plan, for my life, I was in this Gap. Politic I wanted to make a difference in the world. That was classic vintage, 68 Behavior,
Politics. Wasn't it education? I thought. Okay, instead of sweeping reform, I'll do one at a time. And then I thought the thought was, oh, I like to teach kids, little kids could use this, they could, they could use this. It was one of my first thoughts people learn to meditate. All I want to get enlightened. What am I thought,
right? It's interesting how the light switch just went on. And in that moment you just, you just knew
immediately. June 1969. So it's like all those years later. Yeah. 49 years
later and it began with it. You are working in an ice cream.
ShopRite
this guy. Come. Yeah. That seems pretty chill. No, no. There was a guy goes
working. If anybody your listeners know Berkeley on North side of Berkeley. This is Swensons ice cream. It's still there. Probably it is. Yeah, and on the South Side, they had one near the dorm and a top dog, they had. So I'm work. I used to work there and there was this guy named Peter Stevens, who was the one chill guy who was normal, who wasn't crazy and he was a kind person and he was working on a master. I mean, he had a master's in any way.
I went to see him one night at ten o'clock in the middle of studying to get ice cream which only a kid can do get ice cream of 10 for helping my studies. And I said, where's Peter? And said he's in the back meditating. And it was like what what because meditation, if I'd even heard it was just kind of strange but he was not that way. So I asked him about it and he said I'm not going to tell you if you wanted there's a TM Center across town. So I went to a lecture and I remember at the end of the lecture was very made sense. And I said to
Woman, how much of this stuff do I have to believe in for it to work? Because I was very skeptical and she held up a piece of chalk and she said, you don't have to believe in gravity for the chalk to fall, right? Often say with meditation was this before, The White Album, White album was, is very interesting. That was October 68, right? Right now, this is being recorded. February 11th 12. Yeah. And and the Beatles had
Derived or just arriving in India to be with maharshi. And so 50 years ago, they were there writing The White Album and then they recorded it in. I think our came out in September,
right, right. As you're being introduced to this and then fast forward to you. Going to spend time with him in Spain and
72 right became a teacher, loved it. Maharishi was a had been trained as a physicist, in in college. And unlike how he was portrayed in the Press. He was, he was just a why?
Man who had smart new feed physics, and he was surrounded by Nobel laureates and he was talking about there's this field inside that anyone doesn't matter what your religion or philosophy, it's there. And one of the first things he did when he came to the United States, as he went to UCLA and Harvard Medical School and said, you got to study this the effects because look at me. No one's going to trust me. I'm a guy from India, wearing a dhoti,
right. But he became a mainstream cultural figure after the
Beatles went and visited visited with him. And then there's all this controversy swirling around, whatever may or may not have happened there. But my understanding is that, you know, this guy learned how to do this from the great Guru Dev. Yeah, and you know, this comes from The Vedas and the upanishads. That's right. Geeta. And it was sort of bestowed upon Him by Guru Dev, like look go forth into the world and you know, be amongst the people and you know propagate this message for the betterment of
all.
And, you know, it's kind of when you think of 1958 and 59, you had Sputnik, you, I mean, you had just, the world was so materialistic, it was none of this. There was no yoga. There was this Mac Time Magazine, read recently did some retrospective and said, my her she was responsible not only for bringing meditation, but yoga, and even organic. All that stuff that came out at that time. Came from that period and he built up a huge organization, nonprofit organization and one of the most amazing
The things is I meet a lot of interesting people who I'm not. You know, I mean, celebrity types, but I got to know Paul and Ringo quite well and I taught member of their kids and that was quite a tell me about that. Well, okay, so right here to tell you one of the series so there was all this talk about John Lennon and you know he didn't like right there was a little bit of a
falling. That's right. Right. Turned out. It
was like for an hour but it got in the Press because I was teaching, I was in
Sarah. I was in New York City and I got a phone call one afternoon about four or five years ago. And it was as young man on the phone and he said, I'd like to learn to meditate and he didn't give me his name is fine. So we just talk. What why do you want to learn? He said, well, you know, I'm anxious and my friends thought it would be very good for me and they were talking and he said, well actually the reason I want to learn is I grew up in my both my parents meditated from. When I was born, my whole life twice a day, they meditated and it was great for them. And I think it'd be good for me and I said,
oh, do I know them? And he said, John and Lenin and my mom Yoko, right? I said, yeah, you kind of know them. Yeah. But he made the point that they meditated, they meditate together. So what was in the Press was just sort of nonsense and Paul and Ringo continue to meditate continue to support maharshi's work. They've been big big. I run this Foundation which is brought it. We're going to talk to you.
Yeah. But George was like the main god George was the main goal in. Yeah.
From the beginning and he brought the others in George was also very close. I mean, they just saw maharshi for who he was a person who was a simple man, not as self-aggrandizing had learned from his teacher. This meditation technique of effortless transcending. It was very annoying. When he started traveling in India saying that this was good for everyone. There's no cast just everyone. Some people like the hierarchy and the elites and he built it into it's now thousands of centers all over the world
and what was
it like when you were studying Underneath Him and in, that guy's presence. There was one time, I remember
to this day, it was like 1975 and I was in a meeting where you had marshy was in the middle and he was sort of overseeing this conference on religion. They had all these great religious leaders on one side and all these great Nobel laureates on the other. And they were just talking about these Universal principles of life and it struck a chord. And I thought, this is a conversation. You could have had during the times of Plato, or if you know,
Out to anybody. Anytime wise people without an agenda. Wise people who were just interested in exploring and plumbing, the deepest truths of life, whether it's from perspective of science, or religion, or philosophy, or art, or music and very Universal feeling Timeless. Yeah, I loved it.
Is there, is there something specific that you think you gleaned from from learning from him directly that you could have not learned from reading his teachings, in a
Book or I think the way it's a good because I was around him a different times for over 40 years. So I saw him in 1970 at a course in Humboldt State College and then trained with him, in 1972, to become a teacher with thousands of other people and then periodically over the years for meetings and conferences. And the way he was, the way when I was around him, the way he sort of managed me is like a lot of room.
Lot of space, use your own creativity, figure it out, never told me what to do, you know, I went to my Guru and he took never just use your common sense. Be true to yourself those lessons. Be true to yourself. Listen to yourself and there was one lesson that I heard that I've never forgotten where a person. A reporter, one time, asked Maharishi, they said what's the single most important quality. Any person needs to have in order to live.
Live healthy have a better chance of living a healthy successful, happy life, and, you know, I'm thinking love compassion, and he said discernment. Hmm, the ability Jeff to have a quiet intellect in a good intellect and a good intuition. How do I spend my choices? Who do I spend my life with? What do I do? What do I eat? Where do I invest my time? Because those choices are what brings back, happiness. Those deep simple choices.
So I never forgot that. Yeah it's interesting. I mean I think discernment goes hand-in-hand with
Intentionality. Yes. And sort of sits at the opposite end of the spectrum from reactivity, which is the sort of function of the monkey mind, you know, we're all living. Our lives reflexively reactively. And it's that white space in between, you know, what's going on in your head and the behaviors that you choose to engage that Define, what your life is going to look like right and discernment means that that that moment that moment of pause and
Perhaps deeper reflection that allows you to make a better choice for
yourself. The ancient meditation texts, they called the Bhagavad Gita, they call about like a flame in a windless place. So that intellect is just nothing outside. You know, you're not emotion. You're just like calm and clear and you just see into the reality of things, and they also used to say, an enlightened person. He defined as a cool mind, and a warm heart. Uh-huh. And I like that. So you have
Have that, you know, when LED intellect that just sees into the reality is not swayed, but also has a huge compassion and kindness and loving kindness for others. Mmm.
Yeah, I've noticed in people that have well-honed discernment that they almost appear omniscient, you know, like they can see. So, clearly where they need to go and what they need to do. And what's right and what's wrong? Like there's no hesitation in their, in their
And a truly, you know, I mean the purpose of meditation or Transcendental Meditation is not just to get rid of the stress that you get from driving on the FDR, the 405. It was always full, you know, self-realization, I mean, they talked about that or Enlightenment. And now it today, when you're looking at the research on people, have been meditating for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 30, 40, 50 years. You start seeing Connections in the brain that start in meditation. But because of the
Neural, plasticity of the brain, those connections that communication between the front of the brain, in the back of the brain and left and right hemispheres lasting and activity. So you don't lose that Resolute. Intellect you don't lose that that kindness and compassion, you're not overshadowed by anything small outside. Its. That's why, I mean, originally Transcendental Meditation was the domain of the warrior classes, because you couldn't fight with anger, Revenge, pettiness? Any of those things.
And you didn't want to fight, it was a failure if you fought right?
Yeah. That's super interesting as a natural skeptic how do you personally reconcile? You know on the one hand the kind of you know The Vedic Traditions that are steeped in Hinduism and and the like and whatever you know you may have learned from Maharishi directly versus the scientific studies and the kind of predicament of the modern human and what they're trying to deal with as a communicator.
Sure of
this. Well, first of all maharshi repeatedly emphasized that Vedic knowledge, predates hinduism's like 2,500 years old that Vedic knowledge has no geography has no culture has no, it's just knowledge. It's just like the theory of relativity, is not a german-jewish reality because Einstein discovered it. Einstein was a voice in a culture at a time who cognize that. And I think that,
Um, Vedic that when you talk about ayurveda, that's not a religious thing that if I eat this food, it strengthens my immune system. Or if I take that herb, it's just or if I bend this way and bend that way. So he really went out of his way. To really say, I'm someone use the example. If you saw a Catholics girls school, kids doing jumping jacks, jumping jacks aren't Catholic. It's just being used. So I would say that Hinduism or Buddhism adopted these practices but in there,
Essence are devoid of all that philosophy? All that sort of cultural baggage and I think and Maura she also said that every single thing. If it's true from ayurvedic or stew pot you know stuff on TV which is like feng shui it will be able to be documented by modern science. There's not a division right? So you so I'll add resul. It resonated with me.
Yeah I get it I get it so you
You start experiencing the benefits of this immediately. And what I think is interesting about you is, you know, there's a lot of hype about all the fancy people that you teach, you know, like that that makes for good clickbait or what have you and there's some super interesting people that you've had the opportunity to teach meditation to. But I think what's really cool about about what you do is that your heart is really in trying to help people that fall outside of this elitist rubric and it
Something that you did immediately like your dad was volunteering at San Quentin, right? And that was kind of like the first place that you took this. Yeah,
I don't know, it's just, whether it's just sort of a hopeless, 60s idealist or something. But I've never been from the beginning. When I learned this, I always thought this is something that should be made available to everyone. There should be no obstacle, whether money or access or time. This is something that should be every human beings Birthright and particularly
Since the way I was brought up with my parents, or whether its prisons, or working in the schools and Marin city, which was such a diversion where you have Sausalito on the one side, which is his fancy schmancy, and then just across the highway Marin city, which was the at the time, use the term ghetto, you know, in 1968. And I was always drawn ended to that to bring to those kids and not because I'm this do-gooder who has to work out something. And I want praise
It's like here's a tool.
Use it on your own you know takes me an hour a day over four days to teach it to you. It's yours buddy or whoever take it make what you want of it and that's always has been my interest in. And the funny thing is all these different people because I get asked well how about this person? I thought, okay. Let's say I taught 30 well-known people, I've taught thousands of Interest. No, no inner-city school. Kids veterans, you know, regular moms and dads but it's just one of those things. But I don't mind because those people that I
To teach what they become mouthpieces, they
become ambassadors in their own,
right? And they're good people. Tom Hanks is a really good person, you know, Jerry Seinfeld very good person and they on their own. I don't ask them on their own, they say, how can I help? And so they help raise the funds so that we can bring this to people who need it.
So you, you have this opportunity then to begin to really scale. This, when, when you end up connecting with David Lynch, right, who I would imagine some of you probably know for a long,
NG time. But you guys formalize your relationship in this Foundation that you created went in
2005, 5005. Yeah, aha. So
tell me a little bit. I mean like I'm obsessed with this guy. Like what? One of the most unique, creative voices, walking planet Earth. I mean, what a, what a, what an original human being David Lynch's. So how did this? He's come more true to
himself than anybody. I've ever met more true to himself most self.
All I Look to Him as a sort of a reference point, he's an original. I mean, all those things are just sort of what the best thing about him is he has a huge heart. Yeah, you know, he started a lot of people start foundations and they disappear and they put their name, you know, David traveled around the world. He's been meditating since 1973 should beginning of eraser hit. He traveled around the world many times in support of meditation and he wrote a book and he did a catching the
Big catching the big fish
which you should listen to on audio. Only way to do it is like, yeah, don't read it. Do not hear him read it, is it Priceless? Yeah,
it is kept on
believing. It really
is unbelievable, so much, but what I've learned from him is originality, and he always says,
In life.
You have to have Final Cut. You Got Final Cut. Yeah, his
conviction. His conviction, for his own creative voice is
unparalleled.
No there's nobody like your mom. Yeah yeah completely. No and he it just Final Cut you just can't. He said if the painter was painting something and at the very end, some guy in a suit came in and said, I want some blue in there, you didn't get out of here, right? Well, why can somebody do that when you're working on a film? And he said, his only biggest mistake that he ever made was in with the movie Dune, where he gave up Final Cut to dino De Laurentiis man. And he said, disaster, yeah, just ask her.
Said you die two deaths when you give up, he said if it fails and you did your best fine. But if it fails and you weren't true to yourself, it's impossible to deal with.
So what do you think? Is, what is it about him? That makes him such a powerful
Fearless, he's Fearless, he's Fearless in his life. Like, I'll
He loves and is fascinated by. Let's just say a hamster. This great little baby hamster. Growing up to his full life and he's just as fascinated by the laws of nature to watch that movie that dead hamster, Decay. Now it sounds crazy. I
saw a video Once where he took like a raw piece of meat and put it on the floor in his garage and he just filmed it or, you know, I wanted to talk about
it. Well, he says it's laws of nature, its laws of nature that create and the laws of nature that destroy. But there are those
Laws of nature without little hamster. That is dead. And so why is it okay? Or, you know, there's light in a day there's light and darkness, that's a full day. Why is it? They'll only look at this and not look at that. And so when some people have called him on, you know, his films, and he's a meditation guy. In who what's mr. Bliss doing making films like this. He said, first of all, an artist reflects the world around him or her and
We change the world, I'll change my art. And the other thing that it is great that he says, is you don't have to suffer to show suffering, you know. Like you don't have to die to do a death scene, just have to be empathetic and intuitive and be able to show scenes, but he's not. He's Fearless, I'll be watching a film with him and my natural inclination. When something really horrible comes on. This is just sort of like, glance away and he's just not in a weird way. He just loves the whole thing, right? And one
He said someone was on him about his films and he said, have you read the Old Testament, you know, a million times worse than everything I'm doing? Well, he's funny.
Yeah, he's really funny enough to get him on your show sometime. I would I would kill for that would be amazing. And what I loved about the way you described. How you created, this Foundation was how easy it was. Like, you just said, hey, let's do this. And he was like, okay. And then it just kind of happened without any Grand Design or plan.
It was like, it had been my desire for a very long time, you know, I worked in businesses and I worked in schools, but always for 30 years teaching TM, I've taught G M4, 45, 46, almost 46 years, doing all this. But always was kids. Kids, kids, kids kids. And so, at one point is just I was reading about the horrors that children face in schools and you can focus on the under-resourced schools but it's really across the board were losing a generation and so I just did
Tap and I just David, I really want to start it. We should really start this foundation and he said fine and I said, I want to put it in your name. I don't think he thought anything was going to come from. He said, fine and then I said, can I write a press release about it? And he said, fine. And then, two days later was like, in papers all over the world and I say in the book, he called one, he called him, he said, what's a 501c3? They said
I don't really know. That's a nonprofit organization. So now today you guys are, I mean, you have millions of dollars in grant money,
Any that are being allocated to not only helping kids but what I love is you're helping you're helping inmates in prisons and also specifically veterans with PTSD. I think it's super interesting. So can you talk a little bit about
this program? I mean, when you look at Ed veterans and I've taught many, I mean, when you took it look at inmates and they've done research and
Across the board. Almost every one of them has suffered some trauma in their sustained or moments of huge trauma in their life. Nobody just killed somebody for no good reason, but if you grow up in a violent community and they call it AC e, which is acute childhood experiences, which means some traumatic experience. And if a child has three or four of them at an early age, they see the father beat the mother. They witness
Then they are on a pipeline to prison because it just skews them. And when we bring the meta Transcendental Meditation again because the body gets this deep rest, it heals the body in a profound way done knots, those stresses, and there's research that shows that 50% reduction in recidivism rates with when inmates leave prison, 80% of all crimes are repeat offenders because they some kid at the age of 18 ends up in adult prison. It's
Penitentiary for doing something bad. And then it's like a college for criminals, you know, criminal Behavior. So 50% reduction in recidivism rates. When it comes to Veterans, my dad was a veteran. I grew up around veterans. Those are completely different story. A lot of these were just kids, 17 years old, 18 years old. They go off to Iraq or wherever they go. And then one day there's a there on a tank and everybody gets killed but them and they come back like a shell.
A human being and they can't sleep for months because of nightmares and cold sweats, and then they learn to meditate and it's not an exaggeration to say that within a few days. The first thing that happens is because they've gotten his depressed. They start sleeping through the night and we have a study the Department of Defense just to lock this down to some science. The Department of Defense, several years ago gave us two point four million dollars to do a study on the
X of t m on post-traumatic stress. On post 9/11 veterans, comparing it to what's called prolonged exposure which is the gold standard of treatment and the study showed that GM was as good if not a lot better than prolonged exposure for healing reducing symptoms. And one of the big differences is prolonged, exposure is they show videos or films of people, get tanks, getting blown up and people as that they do the veterans, don't like doing that and they love meditating long answer to a short question.
I better be an ID. It's amazing that that the the the benefits are so dramatic. And also second to that that you have like the dod on board who's seeing this and is willing to fund it to the tune of millions of dollars. Which is huge progress especially in the face of the opioid crisis that we're looking at right now and how many of these poor veterans who come back and are suffering are just hopelessly addicted to these.
Pills that are just you know creating wreaking havoc. I think one reason why the
veterans like TM like anybody does is a year and a half ago they were healthy. There were no it's not like they've been living in bringing up some they were just normal kids and then all of a sudden they're not and they know it and they're embarrassed because they are weakened and they're taught as a vet, you know, military personnel to be tough and not to show any weakness. And so
Rather than seek out help which in turn allows teachers, and they commit suicide, you know, 21, veterans commits, because they can't admit. And when they go to the VA, if they get diagnosed and people don't know this. If they get diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, it's like a black mark on their record. They can't get a job as a police, as a security guard. They can't even get a job as a suit, crossing guard at a public school. So a
chilling effect on even raised reading it to begin with and
then when the Orioles are given a handful of drugs and they're drugged out of there,
Our mind, that's not what they want. They remember still two years ago and they were fine. And the beauty about TM is they learn a technique. They just go, you never see him again, they just meditate on their own. They can't come back for follow-up, but they don't need to.
Yeah, I think I read also in the prison context at some Prison, Utah TM. And the prison guard or the warden said, you never seen these guys. Sit together in the same room quietly. Why like with their eyes
Shot like you just couldn't even believe
it. Yeah, that was at San Quentin prison where I was there when we were working with men on Death Row And Men Who were in shackles, you know. So when they came to you learn 121 from a teacher and so 121, in order to do that, he was in Chains and shackles because of violent person and every one of them because it's not hard, it's the name even that guy, it's his nature of the Mind.
And to be drawn to something more satisfying.
And so they go for so people say well why do they take a drug? Because for that moment there's a relief from the pain, it doesn't say afterwards but there's a relief for the pain and so they have that experience. You don't have, it's not an acquired skill and you teach them to turn the attention within and effortlessly everything happens. The Transcendence takes place on its own size down and it
doesn't require a belief system. It works, whether you're skeptical of
it or not know what you don't have to be. I don't have what if I didn't believe in gravity? I'm still sitting here.
Don't have to believe in electricity, I can turn on a light switch.
Yeah, that's right. Like how the 12 Steps work, whether you are dismissive of them or not. If you do them, they will
work. I usually like it when you know, it's often one person in a partnership, one person, learns to meditate and then, do I really want my husband to learn? I really want my wife to learn, but she's so negative and she's so skeptical. And, you know, she won't believe in, I say, I don't care, right? If they want to come and see and take four days and I say to them do the four days our day, if you
Like it after the four days, don't don't do it. Like, you know, there's no there's no, it's no loss here, try it. And if people say, well I do mindfulness or I do be pasta and I say we have to stop siloing, do I do this? And therefore, I don't do that. There's many Tools in a toolbox and these three different approaches focused attention, open monitoring mindfulness. And transcending, they have different outcomes. They have different purposes. You don't say, well, I'm I eat protein, so I don't eat.
Figurines.
Right? Looks like years a balanced
life. Yeah. What if has there been long-term studies on the impact of this on people that struggle with
addiction. There was a study that just came out big problem with addiction is relapse. So they go away for a 30-day 8, Cillian dollar something but they go away from, you know, 30 days or they get off alcohol or or drugs or any other addiction food sex and
Then was a hyper proportion relapse. And so, they're just a study, just came out, it was conducted at Avery Road which is a alcohol treatment facility in Bethesda. And the findings showed that in a control group that people who were not meditating, every one of them relapsed. And the people who did, who were meditating regularly, there was like a 60% reduction. They didn't relapse. Wow, that's amazing, huge. They don't see anything like that. They don't speak was the
All group. It was it was a phase 1 clinical trials, like 40 and 40. Now we're going for a phase II clinical trial which will be 200. And then the third which we really want to do is a thousand, my goal is highest best toughest most rigorous research. So you can with largest numbers independent. So you can, we can change public policies and it goes back to my desire. From the beginning, was the affect public policy. And if if the VA is paying gazillions of dollars,
Or medication will. Why not pay a fraction of that for meditation?
Right? Yeah, it's in their economic interest. Yeah, invest in that as a viable alternative. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm in recovery I've been sober for a while but
You love this? Yeah. That's you
know, I yeah, I do and I think, you know, somebody whose life has been transformed by the 12, steps of which meditation is one. My perspective as a member of that Community, is that that step which involves meditation kind of gets the. It kind of doesn't get the attention that it deserves, it's part of it. But the meditation, there isn't really any kind of faux people don't know what to do, exact do it. I so they do it for
60 seconds and no one tells them how to do it. And so it doesn't really stick and so it doesn't really become an integral practice in that recovery equation for most
people. Well, I mean, what I tell people is
The problem of stress, the problem of drug that these are serious problems and you wouldn't just if you had a physically, I mean, wouldn't it? Well, just go online and see what they tell me to do, you know, you go to an expert, you go to a person who's a proper diagnostician, who could prescribe something that's proven? And I think the same way is with mind, we shouldn't be. So casual, we should do research, you know, meditation, there's a lot of hippie-dippie stuff. There's some cheap stuff, but there's also some
That stuff and learn from a teacher, who knows what she or he is doing, you know, you have a certified teacher, one of the big problems that I have, a lot of friends in the mindfulness field and of Sharon salzberg was telling me that she said problem with mindfulness now as they lost their brand, anybody can say they're doing whatever and so science doesn't know what it is. If you do a mindfulness program at a school in Spokane, what are you doing in st. Petersburg, Florida has no control. Whereas with TM, it's specific. It's
absolutely precise. And the training program is high level of certification,
right? And it involves doing 20 minutes of this practice twice a
day. Yes. Actually, once in the morning for 20 minutes, you get up 20 minutes earlier and you people say I not going to give up my time, right? My sleep and say, no, no, it's better than sleep. It's deeper than sleep and then sometime in the afternoon or early evening before dinner. So the morning is like,
And you have a high level of energy that takes you sustained to. So you don't need multiple cups of coffee in that sort of thing, and makes you more resilient and then you do it at the end of the day to sort of wash off the stresses of the day, whatever you've picked up and be more present with your partner with what you're doing in the evening and sleep, much better at night. So traditionally for thousands of years used to be daunted done at dawn and dusk but it was first thing morning and afternoon.
Do you ever Miss? Yeah course,
yeah. I mean, it had I try not to, I don't
know you're human
Most people say I don't have time or, I don't know how I'm going to make the time, but like myself, like a good alcoholic. I'm like, well, more must be better, right? When I was talking to Dan Harris, he told me that he's experimenting right now with meditating two hours a day because he wants to just see, you know, like he wants to like he wants me to teach him to you. You did. Yeah. I would I would imagine that you would just to see like what that what would happen if he
does. The must be interesting
for his wife. I was
actually and then we can close
It was, but I was actually talking to this businessman and in New York, who was with his 12 year old son and they were sent by his wife was meditating and I think, wife took this son of aside and gave him some tips on what to say. So the fuck the husband was saying, you know, I like to learn how to do it. I don't think I can do it because my mind is so busy, but I don't have the time. I just don't have the time 20 minutes, do I sit down all the time. So the kids said, dad, there's 1440 minutes in a day.
Day, you don't have 40 minutes. And then this, with mom came in for self-care. So and the fact is, it has to be a priority. The trigger, the trajectory, the trajectory that we are all on as a society as a culture as individuals is not sustainable. It's just not sustainable were falling apart and so this is an intervention. This is my own intervention. I'm going to take 20 minutes from my morning. Find it get up earlier. I'm going to take 20 minutes in the afternoon for
Myself and then the rest of the world will adjust. And the nice thing about this is so many people who come say, I could never close my eyes for two minutes, much less 20 and because this meditation is so enjoyable, the experience is so satisfying. 20 minutes flies by just flies by. I think, even beyond
that. There's a weird spiritual equation that takes place where time bends in on a, on itself. And, because by virtue of doing,
In a practice like this you suddenly have more time because you're more, efficient hundred day under more focused you get more things done. There's no procrastination and suddenly that list of to dues shrinks precipitously compared to what it looked like, when you're not practicing this sort of,
and can I close by just giving to the brain research on this? So, everybody wants to be more creative everybody, nobody wants to feel, there's your stag, they want to grow, they don't want to feel their stagnant.
Stuck in a relationship in their own feeling inside and their job. They want to grow. And so a lot of very creative people, I teach a lot of very creative people. And so I was curious, what's the brain mechanism of a of a creative? What's a creative brain? And they say that there's three. They used to think that there was regions of the brain was governed creativity. Oh the right hemisphere. That's the creative side. And then they'll the are the scientist is it's not it's not regions. It's networks its connections and there's three
Works that are involved in the creative process. The first is called the prefrontal cortex, which is the executive Network, the executive control center, that's focused, concentration judgment planning. That's attention, focus. Then the other element opposite of that is called the imagination Network or the clunky name, default mode Network and that part of your brain gets awakened. When you take a hot shower,
Go for a run. We are not like in front of the computer typing and figuring it out. Then there's a third part of the brain called on just say it's the what navigate it shuts down when you need to focus, it shuts down the The Imagination Center and when you are sort of blue skying, it shuts that down the attention. Sorry, this is complicated, but a creative person in meditation develops. This has both networks functioning at the same
time because those neural pathways
Pathways are communicating Its Right
increased, that's Rising. So that means you can focus but not lose the right, the wandering to open the imagination and you can have the imagination but not lose the ability to make it real. I'm sold Bob Roth. You love's Insanity em? Yes, next time, I'm in that, like I was gay. I'd be honored to teach, you
know, it'd be great. I would love to take you up on
that. I appreciate when I come back and I'm going to spend more time in LA. I would like to teach you.
All right, well, thank you sir. I know you got to get going.
I have reached something kind of Lynch. Yeah, well, say hello to him. For me. I'm going to the invitation is wide open for him to come on the podcast. Anytime the new book is great strength and so in Stillness so just came out February 8th, right? 6 over 6. So brand-new on the Shelf, it's very accessible. You can read this in like two days now. I only two hours to out. Yeah, it's like it's super easy. And the best way the best place for people to find out a little bit more about you and your work David.
Foundation.org or ATM dot-org. M dot org. Yeah. Okay, yeah.
Great. Excellent man. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate this a lot. Okay, really great piece.
All right, we did it. It's done. What did you guys think? Brief, but awesome short but sweet. Hope you guys dug it. Do me a favor. Share your thoughts of this conversation with Bob himself. He's at meditation Bob on Twitter. I am a troll on Twitter and Instagram would love to hear what you thought while you're at it. Make a point of picking up Bob's new book, strengthen Stillness wherever you buy find books. I'll put a link in the show notes to make it easy for you to do just that and speaking of show notes, check them out. We put a ton
Of time and work into them. They're almost like a syllabus to extend, your learning, your edification, your infotainment beyond the conversation and because they're awesome. Look, if you're looking for nutritional Direction, maybe you're listening to this podcast because of the plant-based thing, you're trying to get your diet in check. I got good news for you, check out our meal planner. Go to meals to Ritual.com and there you will find thousands. I'm telling you literally thousands of plant based recipes.
All customized based on your personal preferences. How much time you'd like to spend in the kitchen? What your budget is? How many you're cooking for food? You don't like food. You do like food. You are allergic. To in addition we offer you unlimited. Grocery list, even grocery delivery and most US cities with international delivery in certain cities coming soon. You get all of this for just a dollar 90 a week. When you sign up for a year, it's an incredible program. Everyone who signs up loves it. The feedback is insane. We're so proud of this product. It really is. So
Having so many of the problems, the confusion everything that kind of goes into adopting, a plant-based Lifestyle, the solution is right here, it's super handy. Simple to use, for more, go to meals, Rich Roll.com, or click on meal. Planner on the top, menu at Rich, Roll.com. If you would like to support my work in this podcast, tell a friend, share this podcast with your buddies, or on social media, hit that subscribe button on Apple podcast or on whatever platform you enjoy this content.
Subscribe to my YouTube channel, youtube.com forward slash Rich Roll. This episode is available on YouTube as well. All of this really helps spread the word, it enhances the show's visibility, it extends the reach and the audience and that in turn, makes it easier for me to book the very best guess for you. You can also support the show on patreon at Rich world.com for /. Donate. And as always, I want to thank everybody who worked hard and diligently to put this show on Jason Cam. Yellow for audio engineering.
Auction show notes and interstitial music, Blake Curtis, and Margo Lubin for video editing, and graphics and theme music as always by analemma. Thanks for the love. You guys, may you be strong in your Stillness.
