Hello everyone, and welcome back to my continuing dialogue with my friend Kapil Gupta. It seems like every one of these segments takes a life of its own. So let's dive in and see where this one takes us. We want to try to focus today on. It's a topic that you talked about almost daily could peel the mind. So like we always seem to do, I want to start with a broad question and then we will drill down. So I want to thank you. I want you to think about the
Trudy that you continue to do on yourself. I want you to think about the work that you continue to do with others and I'm curious. What is the question that you have been asking yourself say over the past week? Or? So, were the question that most fascinates you right now about the
mind?
But the only place to actually live is in the moment and I hope that no one heard what I just said because it's going to be two time to even listen to what I just said. It's going to be a prescription and it's going to be yes. Yes, I agree and it's going to be you spiritual. It's going to be empty, but I wish that I could speak to you on a very particular wavelength as to be exact and precise context flavor and level 3, which I am speaking.
You would see it on the same level context and plate, but it's not going to have its going to come across as only completely futile.
Well, I want to assume that may be the one to know us by now. We'll see. Maybe we'll hear it in a different light. But what does that really mean? What do you mean by
that? It means that everything that our life consists of is essentially stories upon stories upon stories and our moods and the things that we succumb
I'm too emotionally or all based upon the complexity of the fabricated stories and that none of those stories actually exist and it is precisely in only when there is nothing in the way of a story, and they're responding to reacting to or listening to that. We actually learned living in a world of Truth.
Well, you you summed, it up beautifully in and it in a tweet, I think.
A cigar. So when he said everything in a human's, life is a game, her mind's playing with herself. Well, do we ever win at that game? How do we win at that game?
My only this really recognizing that? It's something more than again. That's the win.
So, for you personally, is that just something that's constantly going on in your mind. Have you become immune to stories that you're telling yourself or to the crap? That your mind constantly
saying? It was a, it is an absolute.
Maniacal and devotional Pursuit not yet
and I but I but I bet there is a glimpse and there is it there's space that you have during the course of a day where you don't deal with that.
Truth.
Is that freedom than for you? Is that what you is? That what we all should be seeking?
Well, no, because it will be sought after in a pleasurable sort of way and then it will be discussed such that.
Ahead full minutes of Freedom today on over here, three minutes with this. That's all I want. And I don't want pleasure. I'm looking for the ultimate arrival and never leaving. I'm a scorecard to.
So I was very intrigued by the dialogue that you were having with your followers about this and it was all over the place and and you very elegantly chose.
Respond to the questions that really were had some depth. But what is, is there a common misconception about the mind can appeal that most of us just get wrong?
Well, I think it's the same misconception about everything which is that everything is viewed through the lens of prescription.
So what are you talking about with that? You know, you hear people talk about the unconscious. You hear. People talk about the ego. You hear people refer to the chat.
Our mind as the monkey mind. Are you referencing the fact that hey, we're all seeking a prescription for that.
Yes. It's exactly right making it academic and making it prescriptive. So, how do I for instance, if there is Chatter? How do I stop chattering? What are some techniques and so-called disgusting word called a hack? What are the so-called hacks to to?
Um, these mind, the chatter as if, as if there was a technique or method with one could employ and all of the Mind chatter would stop and it's frankly insulting to the, you ask that question. If the realm of on seriousness is so off the chart. In one should just cruel. And school asking that question. You should be just outright personal embarrassment and should stand naked in the street from sinking. So,
As to say, what is a technique for overcoming involuntary? Fuck, you should have shamed for asking that question. I mean that's like, saying, you know, how do I hold the entire ocean? It'd be a technique that I can hold the entire ocean and 8 ounce cup, right. Get Series. So this is, this is why I get annoyed about it. Hadley's question after sessions, and I'll get these important questions that no depth, as you said no harm.
Heart. No, no sincerity more muons has gone into the creation of. The question is just infinitely, filled out there, looking for a free hand, shaking to
cope. I want to piggyback on some things that I highlighted that just meant something to me, right? You talk about freedoms on is at the other side of the Mind. Where is this other side? How do we know we're getting there?
Well, you're not getting even ask.
But you're going to get there. You're not getting there because in order to, you know, to even begin to get there. The idea of prescriptions has to be so completely removed and cleanse in your system that the better than even going to be a possibility for best art stuff. And over to the other side of the mind that can be viewed in two different ways and the cons context of the English language might have made that fun. Clear some might have viewed that as
the other side of the mind meeting, not the right side with the left side. And what I meant was the other side of the Mind, meaning The Other Side of the Mountain such that once someone overcomes the mind. Then on the other side is the truth as opposed to the other side within the moment and that that when I was writing that I felt that that could have been misconstrued in that way. Why see it as
Side of the Mountain. I mean that's how I
interpreted. So, so essentially it's only once one gets past the pandemonium and the hurricanes in the tornadoes, the typhoon's of, of stories and identities, and likes, and dislikes, and preferences, and competencies, and hopes, and dreams, and fears, and anxieties and pressures. And all of the, all of the, the
Complexity and miasma, that is the mind only once when overcomes all of that does the possibility of arriving at true, freedom of truth, even become remotely possible. Because what will invariably happen is that one will enter that storm and that my asthma and try to fix things and
One of the storm. How was it that I can dress in the store? How is it that I cannot get wet in the rain? How is it that I can do XY and z and the mind wants you to ask those questions because it's a long, as you are asking them. You are squarely a prisoner of it, as you are asking.
Well, it's obvious that we're all addicted to that side. That's either unconscious or ego, or whatever it is that you want to call it then.
Is very obvious from the interactions of people have with you. In general who maybe haven't yet grasped this notion of no prescription. Why the hell are we addicted to that unconscious? Why did why are we addicted to that side that you're talking about right now?
That's the only voice that is available. That's the only message there's ever been. So it really isn't, it really isn't the fault of human beings that they seek prescriptions. That's the only loudspeaker.
It's been playing in their ear. That's the only two that they've heard. So there's been no opposing bones whatsoever. So we're even from the guru's, even come the religions. Even the so-called sacred temples. Even from there. It has been the same message of prescription and do this and do that and 20 minutes of this and all of this stuff. So, how, how can anyone you reasonably expect any human being not to think.
So, let's assume for a moment that we don't
I don't want to live in that space anymore. All right, if I don't want to live in that space anymore, do you dessert? Do you feel like we each of us that are serious the five people that you and I've talked about, can we train our mind to at least start to shift away from that notion of prescriptions and that notion of that? Whatever it is that's going on upstairs and to start shift more towards truth.
And I think that that shift happens when one
Truly and genuinely examines just how futile and how circular the goose. Chase has been and that by continually not having a ride anywhere. Then one naturally begins to see ulterior means as opposed to following the idea that he or she should not follow prescriptions because
That in itself would then become
electrician. So I want to ask you a couple questions that some friends of mine who are big fans of yours, and who are really eager to dig a little bit deeper into your brain in a moment. But before we get to that something again, that emerged yesterday or the other day, as I was watching and seeing you respond to some of the messages you're getting one of the things that emerges from our unconscious.
Ends and you hear a lot of leaders talk about this, are the mental models that kind of guide our decision-making. What are your thoughts about these mental models that are typically unconscious.
No, it'll just more intellectual gymnastics and circular arguments and empty. Prescriptions. Mental models are empty plastic. They are not the truth. They are just ways to think of there.
Are just constructs and if you get nothing else out of this talk, understand this and you don't have to believe, me, examine it for yourself, all constructs. That one of the
things that that's really one that I appreciate so much about how you approach what you do. Because there's so much talk about mental models or so much to so many books written, so much chatter about
No, the the best leaders in the world. Have these mental models and your answer to them is they're just like involuntary. Any other involuntary thoughts that were just?
Well, they're not involuntary. Those are voluntary. I mean, those are, you know, they're people like to make themselves sound smart. They like to talk about how many books they've read and other things that they have learned. And
We, you know, the opinion of someone so use some scholar who has done this scientific research on X y&z. It's all a bunch of crap. Okay, it's not real. It isn't truth. It's all the words of others is regurgitation and it is derivative. It is not true. It is not generated of art, is not sincere. It is all claim works. It is all scaffoldings that are suspended in the sky that gravity will soon demolish into bits.
All of these ideas, these mental models are all intellectualization of how to approach things. They are not based upon the sincerity of where things truly come from. That are based upon a mode of attack in order to manufacture an approach intellectualization is absolutely the order of the day and it is also frankly ignorant. So this question
comes up,
Obviously, none of us are immune to mistakes when you, when you look at the really stupid and hurtful things that people do in your opinion. Why do really good people? Do stupid shit? Sometimes it's all mind,
of course hundred percent. Absolutely. The reason that that happened is because we identify with things that are not true. We
Recede and pursue things. According to ideas that we believe are a certain way and they are not. And so, by whenever something is pursued in a way that isn't based upon reality. Then mistakes are a natural consequence. They have to be whenever something is pursuing based upon an understanding of how things really are than one no longer makes
mistakes.
And when you look back at some of the mistakes that you've made, do you sit back and have an reflect on them?
Well, I'm going to give you an answer, but it's
I don't want to hold back, give you the true.
I don't want you to hold back. But I want you to take to really help me understand how you reflect on your
mistakes. When there's a mistake that is done the natural consequence in the natural behavior. And the natural habit is for someone to say, either to themselves or by way of being given advice from some psychologist or something or a friend, which is that. Okay? The next time this happens, make sure that you don't do that.
The next time this happens. Now, you've learned make sure that you do that instead and in those are all fine and well, meaning but whatever, whatever, behavior that one replaces, with the, the old behavior that was ineffective. The new one will be ineffective to it just may not be as egregious as the old one was, but the over was egregious because it was a pure form of reaction.
It was reacted. Well, the new one is a reaction to the or so. It also is reactive. It isn't it? It's a reactive fix and all fixes like all constructs fail. And so when you Institute the new Behavior, so to speak, then that will cause its own problems. And then something bad will happen again. And then we'll say, okay. Well next time I'm going to do this and this is what I mean and 50 years go by.
And nothing changes and that. And that's what I mean by all constructs fail. No matter how wonderful the idea seems it. Faints. It leaves you stranded in the Sahara, every single time. As a result, one approaching any issue from the standpoint of behaviors is doomed for failure. Behaviors are cosmetic.
So, one has to approach things if they don't want problems, but they want to minimize the problems that may result by the institution of a certain actor Behavior. Then one will understand the source from where is actions alone. As opposed to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, because it sounds right? And because the psychologist said and because
Be happy books. And so, and because Society, you will catch you on the back for having done. So and all these things, the problem, the problem with doing things in this way. And the reason why it's so easy to do them is because they sound so nice. But things that sound nice. Usually. All
right, so help me with this. There are a lot of people out there who are very critical of themselves, especially in business and when you reflect on
Something like that, whether it's a mistake that you made, whether it's, you know, poor judgment, whatever. Is there a better approach for you to take when you are self assessing
yourself? Well, the natural answer to that Society will give you is, don't be critical of yourself, be your own best friend at all,
where you're not going to give me that. So
don't tell me the truth. The truth is that it isn't about being nice to yourself or critical of yourself.
It's not about it is, it is about what you did and what you should have done. It's about whatever you did. What was that a reaction to? That's the truth.
And so dig, dig a little bit deeper, like you give me an example, I get it, right. I was waiting to hear that get dig a little bit deeper, maybe on something that you explored with somebody or something that you explore.
Okay, so I'll give you an example. I'll give you an actual example. You know what, let me, let me give you something that is very interesting. I have a dear friend of mine, who is a great thinking partner for me. And he is a real advocate of your philosophy and he was contemplating the other day. Talking to me about Solutions versus complaints, and he raised a great point. He had heard you talk about running the four-minute mile before. So, you know, one of the things that we started to talk about. Hey,
If you did indeed run that four-minute mile and a great majority of your friends, which were still running the 10-minute mile. How would that impact you would? You would that throw you off
me personally, or you you for me, the training would occur in isolation as much as humanly possible, logistically. So that the 10-minute mile.
Would not rub off on me as being a limit that I had to overcome. And then once I reached 959 that I had somehow succeeded at something when it's actually just a also success based upon a reaction to the empty idea of competition. So would it do me off that guy and ran four minutes and someone else had ran ten? No. Because because the things that I would pursue in order to get to that
Minute would be fundamentally off the charts in wildly in the jungle different from anything that anyone's doing in society. So it wouldn't kill me off at all.
And you wouldn't have any issues. You know, if you were part of a relay team and you were the guy who was doing for minute miles and the rest of the crew was way behind.
Well, first of all, you know, I would know that by working within a group of a relay team he would also it would essentially be a
Acted mediocrity so because everyone's going to regress toward the me. So I really wouldn't want to be part of a relay team. I want to be part of any team,
but what if you have to what if you're running a business and you have to be part of a
team? Well, that's different. If I'm part, if I'm running a business. I'm going to L by business. I'm not interested what anybody says, the last thing a leader who truly wants to make something highly unique and Artful will treat his business as
Toxicity. The stupidest thing you can possibly do if you have any sense of Jesus within is to make it a democracy or to have these board meetings where you look for others to give you feedback. Yeah. How can, how can we, how can the people who work around is Rembrandt? Get Rembrandt's you back about his art. See where does this come from? Well, this great question. So these are these ideas come from a Kumbaya.
our society, which is fearful and that Society is fearful of being unkind and and and sitting in singing hymns together and everyone must be part of the team, and everyone must be getting a trophy for participating, and everyone must be counted and you can run your company if you want that way, but you also, you in hell,
So I wouldn't let me piggyback on that for a minute assume, you're that leader for a moment and you are compiled Gupta, who is in the in Pursuit at mastering his mind. Knowing what, you know, how do you influence people on your team? How do you get the best out of all?
Honestly, it is an amount of money than the best out of anybody. Being would be about me, bringing people on board to do.
Least super specific tasks that they were the best in the world at and I would assess that DNA in the hiring process. It wouldn't be about me bringing in someone in order to get the best out of it.
Don't you feel that? It's so so then describe to me. What if the leaders responsibility isn't to continually get the best or Elevate the people that he that are working on his, or her team. What is it then?
Back to himself what human beings are most moved by whether they like it or not and it's not necessarily an intentional thing because there are there's something within a human being that respects something without the human beings consent.
Things are moved by true genuine sincerity. They are inspired by uncompromised. They are inspired by seeing in a human being what they wish to long to see in themselves. So the perfecting of oneself as a leader is really the best chance. That one has to influence another.
And quite frankly, if he tries to protect himself in order to improve the mother than his act of protecting themselves will be disingenuous and you'll feel the
darkness.
That makes a hell of a lot of sense. They really does. And I appreciate you going at it from that angle and in the process of trying to perfect oneself. What approach do the best people that you work with? Is it a constant reflection? Is it a constant self-assessment on, you know, here's some things that I could be better at or what is the process that somebody goes through to continually go?
You know, in that self-perfection
state. Well, what doesn't what the best people do it is about how deep one's desire. It is divided the ultimate because quite frankly, there's no one doing this thing that I'm talking, so I don't have any models to give you.
You are the
model. Well, so what I'll say is, if someone truly wants to ride with the ultimate, what he will do is is be so devoted to the truth of Alicia of the
because he recognized that the truth is the only thing in the world that are things that we will be so devoted to the truth that in every situation, you would be looking not mechanically anyone walks away with this. I'll slap them, they are walks away thinking. Okay. From now on, I'm going to ask myself the truth and then we go down that mechanical prescriptive growth, but would someone truly wants to ride with your ultimate. They will constantly be asking themselves with the truth.
Situation is as opposed to what they should do about,
and do you feel it? Is it? Something is the truth. Felt
you are asking a question, which says, how do I know when it arrives? And I am saying to you that the sincerity of your desire to know, it is the arrive.
Okay. I'm going to have to ponder that for a moment, but I got two more questions for you. I know you're not a big proponent of positive psychology, positive self-talk, whatever you want to call it.
It but isn't that better than its
opposite? I'm not looking for, what's better than most. Why want to do? I care that if there's to war zones. I want to go to the one that has more sunshine.
It's the Cloudy Waters. Oh, I don't care. It's a boring question to me. Why would I ask that question is? Why would you ask? Why would you ask a question that if two things are useless, which one is less than clears? Why would you ask the question? What is the ultimate
will? Tell me what the
ultimate? Well, I'm I
ask I ask you stupid questions so you can get me to the right questions.
Well, the question is, what is the ultimate the question is not, isn't isn't positive thinking bear the negative thinking. Okay. Well, isn't, you know,
assigned a war zones better than a cloudy one?
That's right. So, what why live there like, why not live? Okay. What what, way of approaching things does leave one to the ultimate? What, you know
questions, like exactly what I wanted to ask. So so help me understand that.
By a desire to know what the truth about a situation is.
What the reality is as opposed to? How should I think about it? What hack or mental model? Should I view this through as opposed to wearing some colored lens? What with open eyes and no lenses at all, but it is the reality of this particular situation. How does its it naturally? Because once I know the truth about it, then I will be able to match.
The coolest landscape.
Alright, last question. A lot of people ask you about meditation. I know how you feel about meditation. Do you not feel that? It serves any purpose at all, to try to get me closer
to a disingenuous for, you're asking for what is the minimum? Right? Do you not think that it gives you anything at all? And, and so the minute that I say, yes, you will say C. So you should be very patient. No, I'm not going to say
That you should know me by now.
Okay. Have you ever met at ated?
Yes. Sure. Absolutely.
And was that the clue to you that? Hey, this doesn't work for me.
Correct? What doesn't work for me? It doesn't work to get one to the ultimate, but I'm not totally false construct. But I mean, someone could say once again. It's all in. How you phrase the question.
So you're saying is jogging Brad for, you know, am I going to die? I meditate know. What is that are useless question? Yes. The question is, does meditation helped you in some way? And make you feel a little better on. Yeah. Well, as a multivitamin, right? The question is, does it get you to the ultimate the ultimate meaning arriving at no involuntary, father arriving at Freedom, you know, having
Ali conquer, all your emotions, riding at peace. No, it doesn't. It doesn't.
Let me just ask you one, other thing, help me, understand the best way to phrase questions, because this really, I'm in a murdered and very appreciative about how you do that for yourself. And I'm not asking for a prescription here, other than the fact I want to know from your perspective. What do you do to phrase questions?
That help you reflect appropriately that help you reflect in the types of depth that's going to lead you to the truth
to myself or to someone else
both to yourself. I mean, certainly I'd like to get better at it for myself,
you know, for myself. It's on a whole nother level. I have to sort of pair things down a little bit. When I'm talking to another, I have to to some degree. Come at it from where they are.
So what I'll say to you is in the new talk to and clients of yours or people that you talk to, you know, it would be very dangerous of you to raise things from the standpoint of the truth because unless you have betted these people and I know for a fact that this is the wavelength that they really are on it.
You spell disaster for you because like, you said, five people
a lot of people don't even know what that means. The truth, right? That's midst misconstrued in and of itself.
Yeah, and that's why you know, there has to be a vetting process people who come to you should come after they have read your material or I've heard you talk or whatever so that they know the the atmosphere and the environment and the air and the plane.
Looks are entering rooms.
So what it says, give me give me a sense of some questions. I can we started with the questions that fascinates you, how about some questions that you've asked yourself that intrigued you recently.
I think it would be some of the same things. Always, it's the same thing always, which is what is? I don't know. It's it's always, it's always that category of question is always what is the real truth?
This situation and do you just keep modeling down till you want
something? Or what? What do you what are you
doing? What is the truth in this situation? That is not born of reactivity that sits on its own. That doesn't mean support. What is that independent truth? That isn't based upon being supported by idea from me or from anybody else. It is the quality in the
nature. You're one of a kind. I appreciate it before.
