Kevin Rose and his guests are not registered investment. Advisors. All opinions are Kevin's and his guests alone. Nothing discussed. Today should be relied upon for investment decisions. Nor is it investment advice? This show is solely for information and entertainment purposes. Only. Please work directly with an investment professional. We're calling this is diggnation. Yeah.
The Lost episode. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. The Alex replace when I guess. Yes, I want to Alexis for an
Alex II did not. I swear I deemed you a minute ago. This was early into the nft rabbit hole, probably early this year and I was like, Kevin, I want to do a podcast with you. I will be your Alex. I just, I was so impressed. So impressed by the fact that you've been, I mean you're ahead of the game obviously with web to
Happy to talk about that but you've been absolutely pioneering on on 13. And in particular, the culture in communities around and ftes and digital art and all this stuff and it's I'm not ashamed to say it. It's been great following you on this. And I think most of my great ideas around. 13 have come from reading your stuff and listening to your
stuff. I appreciate that. That means a lot. I mean, I think the great place, you know, a good place to start, where one thing I absolutely figured I must do on the show is
Is I think about the early digg and Reddit days. I mean, you know, she's late 2000, late 2004, 441, dig first, got off the ground, you know, and I, I just want to say, I want to apologize because I said some really mean things about Reddit, and I feel like, did you yeah, dude. I was just, I was immature, we had this podcast, we were drinking. I look back on that time. And I think a lot of
Jokes, a lot of stuff that you died. Watch now and I'd cringe like, yeah, that's a huge though. That was definitely my twenties. Yeah, it's definitely you but I, you know, I feel, I feel bad for some of that stuff and I hope if you saw any of it. I hope now that, you know, not to take it personally. It was just just me being, I mean, it wasn't like every single episode. We were bashing you, but I know that we were, there was some rivalry got kind of going on there where it got a little intense at times.
Who'd it. Okay, from my
Point of view and that our first. So I really appreciate that s. I've never, we've, we've not spoken about the stuff like, despite being internet friends, despite being in your DMs or texts. Like I feel a weird closeness with you and an amazing, like amount of respect and and I so, I appreciate that. I, at the time, the old others, one thing, there's literally one thing that is just lodged in my brain, which was from a clip of a live diggnation.
So we're someone threw a Reddit shirt on the stage and you pretended to blow your nose on it. Throw it aside and somehow that clip. Let's see if Ami. And here's the cuz of the person that I am. I don't think any of this stuff personally, but I do take it. What's the word? Well, maybe I do take it personally, you know how? You know how there's that great Jordan quote from the documentary was like and I took that personally there. I think one of the things that has weirdly been very motivating for me my entire career.
Is-is-is haters is people who who have dismissed stuff that I've done or while this stuff and I'd literally put this up on my wall and you all were the in our heads. It like in my mind you were the Goliath because like in all honesty hand to God like I did not know neither Steve nor I knew about dig when we built Reddit and I still have the email like sweet launched June of 05. See all. We're way ahead. Okay.
July like a month in. I learn about digg.com and I sent an email to Stephen and Paul Graham. Our lead investor in the guy started y combinator. I was like, oh shit. We have a really big competitor. The guy who started it started it is, this tech TV celebrity like they have VC funding. We had twelve thousand dollars in the bank at the time. YC wasn't like a known quantity was just. Yeah experiment. And and they're based in Silicon Valley and we're based in the suburbs of
Somerville we were in Medford, Massachusetts in a little
razor and then I didn't know that it's amazing. And and it
was just it was the two of us in this rented apartment against what felt like this amazing arch-nemesis that was an existential threat to our business. And for the next 10 years I had to has the face of Reddit always explain. I mean, every interview, anytime anyone at talk to us, any person about ready, they be like, oh, that sounds a lot, like dig. How are you different from dig? Why are you different from dig? Why did you come?
Doing this doesn't exist. And and so, for years, it was this, this, this is sort of phantom, the Specter that was seem to always be one. Step ahead, always seem to be better at at shipping. Voicing. You better funded. Always see me better everything. And and so there that was the only moment where are somehow at some point of there's that clip got lodged in my brain because it was put in for a like, okay. All right. Game on, like, blow your nose on snoo. Like we will do everything we can to make sure that you were
get that. And again, none of it was personal. It's just the mindset that I have is one that I latch on these things and use it as motivation when I'm feeling like I'm having an off day. And, and the irony is like, I think we were a lot, more alike or similar than different or at least as I see. Now, as we're both now, older, we're both proud girl. Dad's. Yeah. I like I just and I'm more mature now myself. And I realize like me.
I mean, like, you were so right on some of the biggest trends that shaped consumer social and now you've been so right and so early on the trends that are going to shape like everything the internet web, Susanna look like a blip, the stuff we were doing the style that we cared about is going to seem like this weird, you know, ugly middle. Or it was like a, we hadn't quite figured it out yet, compared to what is happening now, and and so I just I
It you like, Evan. And I wish you'd had me on diggnation back in the day. We could have sparred
the red herring that hey, Yancy in the Heyday. Well, the funny thing is I do it. After all those years. It's like I felt well, the first few years, you know, dig had a lot more traffic than reading way
more Russians. And then
I remember being like you guys sold the Conde Nast, right?
No, it was GG, right. We should have given
up. Yeah, and I was like, oh good like that. It's done here over like we won like awesome. And then dude, those
Rats were so brilliant where you just deputize the community to go and build this long tail of
content. The entire time. I thought I was going to wake up one morning to you announcing that you would let users create their own sub digs or I called something better like the thing. Okay. This and this was, you're gonna give to investors when I would say we're raising our series a are series, whatever, and then didn't obviously sold it to condemn.
The thing that we are betting on is the Dig front page is always going to have a ceiling of people for whom it is going to feel relevant for that Community because only so many people who can look at front page and say this is for me and in you know, the early in the mid Arts, we didn't have great recommendation engines computer or machine learning all the stuff wasn't there. So it was like how do you hack that? And we realized in the first month that we should just be allowing people to create their own communities because once our front page had too many programming or not enough.
Programming links on it, right? The programming Community was like ma. There's not enough stuff here. So we gave them are such programming and realized. Oh good. We'll just let users do that. There was not a brilliant insight there. Other than let's just solve this problem. And for years, I just hoped no one over there would do it. Because if you all, did you already have the user base? You already had all the everything and I know some happy you didn't. So thank you for not doing that cuz I think you would have eviscerated us.
Well, was crazy is right. Then when you all were doing that there was a
Couple things like internally. We had this dream, it was for his, my fault. Like, I had this dream that it would be algorithms that we could kind of sit there and look at where interest was flowing and use a piece of math to determine what belonged on the home page rather than human
editors, and that just never worked man there, but it's here now. Yeah, I mean, he talks, you
know, determining are many years and I
just was, you know, 15, 20 years later. Yeah, exactly.
So that that never worked. But you know, honestly, I remember use came out and said when we launched that that version of dig that just completely fall the open letter all the yes, awkward.
No, no, you came out. You
said like this felt like it had VC, meddling God, but dude, you were absolutely
right by look. No, you were right. You, he was
he was that time when for us we were like we had raised in a venture capital r. We had a fat team and that we had a
Out of heads, we didn't have enough revenue and so we were like scrambling for ways to, you know, a lot of advertisers back then. At least the big brands that we were trying to pitch to. They didn't like it when you had weird shit on the front page, right? They were just like, you know, that's like 200 of what Iran next to, you know, I'm talking about brand, see all the
time. Yeah, so we had to like
scramble and figure out how can we make this safer and in honestly, we just turn our back on the community that got us there. And
You all Embrace that you stayed lean, and you play the long game and a work. So, hats off to you, man. Like it's, I mean, and I have to imagine there's IPO down the road here, which is a, which is going to be crazy. I wow. I
totally, I should have prepared better for this. I was like, what are all the embarrassing things that are kind of like? Yeah. That wasn't. Okay. Well, I appreciate that because I still okay. I remember Michael Arrington wrote, the front-page story on TechCrunch about that and he was like,
Guy who slams dig for copying Twitter? No guy, who copied dig slams dig for copying Twitter? Something and I took that person because I'm like, dude. No, we were just ignorant. Yes, dig built it first but in 2005, it was possible to be that ignorant about interesting things on the internet, but that said, I I do think the part.
Okay, the hot take that I'm convinced of is if you know, if we're ready, doesn't it? Get acquired actually, there was a USB Fred Wilson, invited me over in 2010. This was so I'd love to read in early 2010. We'd gotten starred in this travel search website called hipmunk rest
in peace. Oh, yeah. I used it a bunch now, it was great man. And
he's like, yeah, the one I get that now. Yeah, seriously travels, a terrible, terrible industry for the wrong. If you're in the business of just getting people their flight.
So you're just making nothing but a man, my dad was a travel agent. He still is 20 30 years in the business and he warned me but I didn't listen because that's what kids do, I guess they make dumb mistakes. Um, but I was, I had Fred Wilson called me to the office and he was like, look, we want to bring read it out of condé Nast, and we want to capitalize it. I, this is I've not sure this any of the whole team there, and I just sat there and I was like, um, thank you, but I'm really excited about travel search and, you know, I just didn't have the confidence. I honestly, I did not have the confidence. I
The savviness and I was just like, well, I don't know, this sounds like a lot of responsibility and like, let's just see how this travel thing works out.
Please tell me you got some ownership though. And when I
came back as chairman and 14, yes, don't worry. The 776 Foundation is going to be very well-funded. I've got creative names that foundations can be very well-funded from that and I'm I'm mostly thinking back to these moments where I'm like got a few different decisions and execution and and I'll even go
So far as to say, I don't think Twitter should have existed because in it, I think if either one of us had nailed on the community side, but then also the sort of not the self-promotion side of it. But giving craters a platform to say. Hey come here and post your content. This has historically been the thing that you get gutted me every time because I would talk to web comic artists back in the day and like OG creators, XKCD, Saturn, more breakfast, cereal dinosaur comics and they say Reddit loves me. How do I participate more?
And I would have to say to them, um, just comments and make good stuff because they were so used to sing on. And I want to pull any post. Let me kind, I Tweet stuff out. Can I post kind of like, no actually. Like, it's the product is hostile towards that because it's viewed as self-promotion also their stuff. But I, I look at so much of these platforms that have emerged and I just think God, we had a couple. We have the right pieces. We had the right everything Discord is another one where I was like, I mean, that that was built out of the Reddit, sidebar, right gaming.
It has on red, it would say. Hey go join the Discord and it was very clear. Right? So the good news is we both did. Okay, and at the end of the day web 3 is going to fix all of this dude. Yeah, it affects all of us and the community stuff from 04 that you were espousing and 05, you know, I was espousing is it's the blueprint except now people have real ownership. And so the value of that communities more than internet points man's it's. So I'm really curious. I mean given your
You got this massive platform in red, and I know like your day-to-day is shifted, right? Yeah. In terms of my mold them
out. I'm here out here. But, but
are you, I mean, do you not? Look at that and say, gosh, why doesn't read it? Just embrace all of this web three Tech. I know that they've talked about it for a long time. Like, do you have any insight into what's going on there?
Can't talk about it
Kevin. I can't I but I also like, again, I do not speak for the company. I left. Pretty publicly last year. Yeah. Post, uh, Floyd and everything else. I am, let me, let me say this. There is an interesting thing that's happened here with and let's talk about meta because that's a great or Facebook. They're real real name. They're really my love. These Facebook. Historically, these incumbents historically have had a huge Advantage because a distribution. Right. Facebook wants to or Instagram want.
Copy Stop, they can roll it out to millions of users great. If the feature sticky like it'll stick around and it's a great. They're like, so we're just friends, right? There's sources. Perfect example, excuse me, and um, and yet I think with web three views in common platforms because they have the existing user base and distribution actually have a tremendous liability and it's worse than the innovators dilemma. Because again, we started with this community is what matters here. And you saw this with Discord having to roll back the NFL, a pretty light and
Fifteen aggression, and socialize, Jason's a smart dude. Jason II. I have a little bit of Discord paper full disclosure. But like they've done, I think a very great job building something that is core infrastructure. Almost by accident. There are web 3 and yet the community, there is still really pretty defensive about the concept that there's a learning curve. There. We start going down the list and I think every one of these platforms have Discord has having this much trouble, getting a light feature pushed out the education process.
All these other platforms and not to mention the community. Byun.
I don't want to say is impossible but it's really, really, really hard. And what you and I learned before anyone else realized, it was that the CEO role of the future is just as much a head of state as it is a business leader. And right. We, I'm sure you had some weird conversations. Is your investors about like something going on in the platform and saying no. No, I've got the seats. Like we know I've got a sense for where this, you know, this this or that decision with the community. And it's it is a, it's almost like a not
It's on the second governance or political type job. You have to understand that. So yeah,
like when my DVD key got a whole easy, remember that leaky? Yes.
Yeah and making decisions on what to take down, or what not to. And and so we got a 10-1. This is in our bones, where we can't unsee that lived, experience. And every CEO, we back that we invest in now going forward or any pfp project leader. Any of these teams has to default think this way, whereas again, there's this weird awkward, phase of web to find.
Founders and CEOs, who if they're not, if they haven't lived and breathed internet communities, for last 15 years are kind of walking into a field. That doesn't feel the battlefield has changed drastically, and it's a very different experience. And so, for those reasons of of both, a community that has, has to get sort of shifted over and brought over and, and Leadership, just not having a sort of default Community mindset. It's going to be very hard and that's it's never been a better time to be starting from zero.
As the expectations of your community are so low and because where it can go from here, is so much greater, like retconning that in a community is very hard and even things. So, I think my greatest contributions to the Reddit product were uploads and downloads on comments, which led to Karma score changes and then these Awards. So like people today introduce themselves to me as like, I'm a 12-year redditor. They don't see their government name. They don't even say their username because maybe they don't know that they salmon, 12. You're
Sure, and it was a little badge along with a number of others that we had because after like six months, the karma scores were so high, that a new user would just be totally unmotivated. They would never hit that goal. Even if he did it by day or by week or whatever. I'm so I created these daily Awards based off of GoldenEye because when you ended a golden eye for beef are for person Deathmatch, even if you were the worst, you still got some usually some award like most cowardly dry. So even though there can only be one winner, everyone felt like they had some
Asian trophy, essentially for some unique thing. And these Awards became a big part of the culture, a big part of the community. But again, they had no value outside of these made-up, internet points. Now, the fact that a community can be rewarded for being early and right, just by participating whether it's playing a video game like axi, whether it's participating ones on the commutes with its buying and up to you, whether it's whatever like that. Now, starting out at zero is huge because every one of those early community members sees the potential upside. Yeah, and if it's upside is
monetary, right?
Like it's real nice. Just read. He's your boss, exactly.
Yeah, that is a really cool advantage that these new. Like, I look at like, GM XYZ and some of these little communities that they gate membership via an N of T. So you have to have a 90-day enter in. I mean, it's just like the way you would build things. If you did it from scratch today, I think, you know, I think a prime example of this is, I don't know about you, but like I have an extra laptop sitting around that is my windows box, right? And it's just for gaming, right? Yeah. I got mine right here. It's a nice toffee. See right now. It's a you don't use it for anything else, please.
Gaming rig right now. And I look at that interface them like my God, they
need to do something to this. Right? So
this didn't I got the new windows. I got download the beta because I'm like, wow, this looks new and interesting.
Who does that? It? What it does is make a lot of the new beta of Windows. Yeah, cause who cares, you know, some precedent. But like, so I'm playing around with it and I'm just like, oh man, they didn't, they didn't go all the
way, you know what I mean? Because they have this old Legacy group of, you know, hundreds of millions of people that if they went all the way. It's gonna piss off a
Of people. And I feel that's the problem with any existing web to company today, in embracing this new stuff. You almost have to take the cut. I like what Discord is doing in that they've said, you can extend us via bots. So like, you know, we'll put together an SDK and, and go and extend gating going. Extend rewards all via Bots and will shove that off to the community. That's kind of, that's pretty interesting. What are your
thoughts on that? I think it's the best. That is the best solution than
Sort of solves the problem while enough while like kind of punting on the bigger issue, which is like jumping on the new trend. Yeah. I think this becomes much more existential much faster than any of us thought about. Because back in the day, we knew it would be years before competitor would really come up and scale. Right? And if the market caps of some of these profile pic projects are any indication, like that's real value, 40 nominal utility. Although it's increasing, like you put that kind of value creation.
Platform that has community and like wealth, creation and excitement and all the things that social platforms and you get something looks more like ax e, Infinity coming out of nowhere with gaming, right? That's that's the start. It's only going to get better sending these social platforms. And so I
I know, you know at the end of the day, user experience is what wins and that's the part. Where if you're only going to go half measure like a Discord or any of these other web tools that are even further behind someone's going to show up with that, amazing user experience and the early adopters, who already know how to connect their wallets. And yes, it's terrible and yes, it needs to get so much better. They're going to join and they're going to have success and they're going to recruit and this will grow and this flywheel will Spin. And so I will never bet against the great user experience in those early days that
Can capture momentum, especially Miss Webb's free world cuz like you said, you had something that can give people like, change people's lives financially and you have every every incentive for it to keep growing.
Yeah. It's gonna be I mean, a lot of these rough edges are just going to get sanded out over the next, you know, six months a year year and a half. I think things are getting a lot smoother for the average consumer, to kind of interact with this type of
stuff. And dude, Kevin. This is where and you'll see me like I push this, I know this, I know this is important you too, which is why I'm going to use my soapbox.
Like for everyone who is in this space right now and very excited. Good. You're early, we're going to make it and you know, going to the events talking to folks many folks, like it's still dominated by a lot of folks like us white, dudes have been in Tech all of our Lives, which is great. I'm a big fan but where you actually have where we all have an irrational incentive to bring more people, and women is an easy one, more people into this is that we're already seeing all this growth.
In a very just male-dominated environment and women Drive consumption, women drive, so much surf, culture, creation and curation, and so it's actually in your best interests to, even if you're not even thinking, for any social means. And I think there's some great social justice reasons to want this to, to be expanding this and bringing even more people into the community as quickly as possible that are not representative today because that is going to further accelerate that flywheel, because like that.
That Chasm when that gets crossed, it's game over. Because now you're really talking about the engine of of what drives all of this in terms of purchasing and culture. Yeah, and I'm very excited for that and I wanted to happen as soon as
possible. Yeah, I agree in this is like I think of this as such especially in a tease is such an expansive pie and it's one of those things where, you know, some of the tweets I've done recently have just been drawing attention to two black and ft artist, too.
Trying to have a lot of women artists on the podcast as well. And the reason being is one. There are fantastic artist. So that's in the no-brainer. But to it's like I wouldn't one of the trends I've noticed is that when these nft artists they make money and they start getting paid, these royalties. They're backing their other artists friends and their help in. So it's a beautiful flywheel of expansion into new markets that as a standard like white dude off the shelf. Like I'm not going to have visibility into and so it'll be a great way.
Way to kind of push all of the different Arenas and grow this pie. I think it's
exciting and Duke. I'll double down this with a weird fact. So when I left read it, the first time in 2010, I went to go volunteer in Armenia. I'm Armenian with Kiva doing microfinance lived there for four months, and one of the things that gets drilled into your head early on in microfinance and this is, you know, giving small loans in u.s. Dollars, maybe a hundred five hundred thousand dollar loans to people in developing World usually to start.
And scissor do whatever they need when you eat it is statistically significant. You are way better off lending money for investing in women in these communities. All the world doesn't matter. When you when you normalize across different countries or regions cultures, does not matter, give money to women because when you do, let's say they're going to start a business or what have you the gains from that. Don't just get reinvested in the business. They get reinvested in their families and their communities. And so this nature that you're talking about in the end of T community of of
paying it forward to other people in the community like it is real. We know it exists offline in environments that are way higher friction because it's just hard, you know, you're limited by geography, all this other stuff and it still happens. Unequivocally. We take that to the digital world where the barriers fall down and you can find an artist Halfway Around the World to just excites you because you were bored. It to am scrolling through Twitter. It's going to keep happening and that builds that flywheel that again just makes us all better off at the end of the day. Yeah,
absolutely.
When you think of web three, what's your involvement with it these days because, you know, I see, obviously the no-brainer stuff. Is it about some artists that you like? You can set your profile photo to something else. Like, how deep are you going both in terms of the art side and collecting artists? And then also on the investment side as
well? Okay. So when I started the 776, my VC fund a year ago and a year, I've seen the in the community. I thought, okay, web 3 is going to be a part of it. I might
my biggest one Adventure so far, was seating coinbase? 2009. No 12. And that was largely because the our Bitcoin Community was so strong that I was like, okay I've read it's this excited about this thing. And Brian Armstrong's this talented, like governmental probably shut it down, but something interesting will happen here and a year or two ago. I really got crypto pilled, both with corn-based going public and then just the energy of really talented people whether it was on the design from
Or in the product front saying, no. No, this is what I'm going to spend most my life working on. And, and so, I mean, at least half of our investments out of this fund are going to be web 3 at this point. And I look, man, I've made a career just out of finding people smarter than me and listening to them. And, and the, especially the builders not just people smarter than a lot of those people people who are building stuff, who I know are seeing where things are headed and and looking at the two
Tools. They use looking at the things they care about looking the things they do, and then just living like all of us. One anxious morning, at a time frantically, checking my Discord and Twitter for all the stuff that I miss every single morning. Yeah, just lying to participate. I mean, it's dude it the tools are going to get better. I know, you know that like, it feels pretty frenetic to say the least and it I mean it it probably always going to feel that way, but we will get better tools, but I'm I spending the vast majority.
My time and I think the fact that we make more than half of our investments in web three is probably going to increase even in the next year or two because that's that's the other part man. The rate of acceleration continues to exceed certainly my own expectations because people think okay. Well this is gonna you know, so get better in six months in this get better a year or two years. It'll be some and then sure enough. It happens in a fraction of the time and this is that game. My linear thinking brain doesn't want to.
Play. But I feel needs to and, and it just it excites me, man. Because it's we proved, we proved in web to that this stuff works. And now by adding real ownership into it. It's changing lives. And and especially for so many of the artists mean even in to see Basel here in South Florida. Just be taken over by by everything from like an FTD Jen's to really amazing artists is is
Because it's, it's cutting out the middleman that historically have not really played a role and to hear just one artist. And now I've obviously heard like thousands talked about the fact that like, you know, they're your first work tends to sell for the least amount of money and for the rest of your life, you kind of Rue the day you sold it because you see what it sells for at an auction, you know, ten years later when you've built a career, 15, 20 years later, but to know that now that you know, that secondary sale actually is going to bring in of the vast vast.
Vast vast majority of the revenue for all time. Yeah, that changes everything dude. It demeans in artists can think about making generational wealth that that carries right for Generations. They're they're great great. Great. Great great great grandchildren will be able to withdraw from an Easter dress and be like, thanks again. Great great, great, great great grandma. That's a really big fucking deal, especially for an industry or for a career choice. An artist that usually has gotten met with geez. Do you have a back-up plan?
Right there. I mean, that's not, that's that's fucking world-changing tude. And it's have some hyperbole by you. When you say any that you
say my great-great-great-great to an ether dress. Are you a do you believe in a multi-chain world? Not
what? Sarah said, I'm not a mad colonists. Don't try to back
me into one of those ponies rise going on or what
was I dabbled? Dude? I thought I am. I the only way to do this job. Well, in my opinion is to be pragmatic as possible. So, so I yes, I mean I look
I obviously, like everyone wish I had bought even more Bitcoin when I did that coinbase investment, but when he showed up, I was lucky enough to be in the pre-sale. I've dabbled in other change. We did invested in an avalanche. Even were very intrigued to see this mess around with a few others. Obviously saw the Solana partnership that we're doing, but I'm following, I do I'm most excited about eith. My largest personal position is in aetherium still, but but no, I'm not.
Not a maximalist, man. You can't you just can't. I like there's this is such a big pie that I don't believe anyone technology can possibly win. And I'm just doing my best to sort of forecast in 10 years. What I think is going to have the most value. That's it. And yeah, I'm almost the same
camping. Is he? I think of them just like databases like I don't know about what what's up with Reddit? And we'll dig was the lamp stack Linux Apache MySQL PHP.
Be
when you guys welcome today. So we originally built, read it in python as well. Smarter. I'm uh, no, that was terrible. That was loves because Paul Graham was like, you should build it in lisp and, and whatever we within six months, we'd switched over to Python. And and so similar, I remember the wars. I remember that even the rails developers. I remember, you know, PHP kids like, there it was. I feel the exact same way on this. Like your Tech stack at the end of the day, doesn't really.
Matter unless it affects the user experience, which again is the thing people actually care about and there are going to be text acts that matter for certain technologies that have to be a certain way or smarter. That way. I still think they're plenty of databases that are fine to be centralized like where the user experiences better do that. And and so I you know, plenty of dumb money is going to get convinced by a deck. That's he's like a slide that just says web 3 blockchain where it doesn't matter or where it doesn't actually serve a purpose or it is actually more expensive or whatever. Just
Banana, man. Now, come on. Got no time for that. No time for the maximalist,
but I don't know which podcast is going to go out of probably going to everything, but when you think about like net worth and allocations to crypto like some people are like, oh one percent of your net worth in crypto, everything else. Just like Robo investing, like, completely decentralised. Are you a stock picker? I mean, we don't have to get into the nitty-gritty, but I give you the high overarching. Kind of like, how do you think about this stuff?
Yeah. Okay. So I've and I'm not investment. Advice course not? But I
But I am not very good at most of this investing and I have remained blissfully ignorant of all the things that I have not felt like I've had an unfair advantage in. So most of my wealth is in like fairly although becoming less so illiquid startup stock or like VC carrier from funds. I've started or basically long-term investments. In pretty illiquid privately, held companies. That is where I have all my unfair advantage. That's where like making a phone call.
All to help a portfolio company. Shout-out Riverside that like changes the entire trajectory of the company because it's the right investor or the right new user like that. That's not do that all day long because I can actually affect the market cap. I can no matter how many water bottles, I order off of Amazon. I'm not affecting, not affecting the market cap, but the The crucial thing for me has always been focused on what I'm really great at. I probably have ten percent.
Of my net worth in crypto right now. Do I feel like it should be higher. Yes. I think the market I can. So I this is the reason I know I'm not good at trading stocks is because I get to motivated or I get too emotionally attached to shifts in the market. So I like ignoring this stuff and any of my paper hands mistakes in the past have been because I just feel like, oh god, I've made too much money on this. I have to sell, like, I'm nervous. Like I just doesn't feel right and, and in a lot of cases.
Holding like having illiquid assets, like startup stock has helped me because I couldn't sell it and write all these miracles of compounding, the right ones. But I, I'm, I have a Robin Hood account with, like, what I considered gambling money that I'll invest from town to town and buy local GameStop by little whatever, just for the lulz. I love
doughnuts. Are you? And these subreddit still like, Vietnam Wall
Street. That's no, but like, hey, okay, but it like there is
I'd I am not a Wall Street bets tidjane, though. I'll be you know, you must look. I mean, I don't have Kevin I don't have an unfair Advantage there. And so yeah, I only want to play in places where I know I have this unfair advantage and like yes, I have like a multi-million dollar collection of trading cards and classic comics and video games like weird alternative assets that I've been into the last few years, but I'm I I really believe and
This is advice. I didn't get like my folks. My folks did fine. But, like just selling right at the first time was more money. They were going to make their entire lives. And so I get handed a bunch of money in my bank. Your I get wired, a bunch of money in my bank account. I'm just like, who do I talk to ya? And, and I went and talked to the First Financial Advisor that I met, which was Dumb. And he was a nice guy. This isn't one of those horror stories, but I realized a few years in, I was like, hmm. You're not that much smarter on this stuff than I am and I'm not smart at all and
And I started realizing that okay, like there's there's different levels to this. And and unless I feel like I'm less, I know I'm not the sucker at the table. Like I don't even want to play this game because I'm gonna be the sucker at the table. And and I've just tried to invest that way as best I can. So I stick them before lot of salads crypto and of TS Collectibles, you know, normal stuff, 60/40 Bond stock. That's dead.
Yeah. I actually don't know. Hold.
Runs at all. I just, I had this, I had this Robo investor that was, you know, doing all this stuff through via wealthfront. And what the heck didn't? Yeah,
it's like I like it because I just don't have to
worry about it, man. It just does all that talk tax-loss harvesting and all that stuff more than. But I killed the whole bonds because you can like, drag, like your little allocations like, and the whole bonds and I put it all into stable coins at it because like, you know, you're getting eight percent all over the place and stable coins. I'm like, bonds are not going to outpace that anytime soon. I
I guess there's more risk there. But I'm fine with
it, dude. It's it's a weird and that's okay. That's, that's the weirdest part. Right? I feel like I should be the most tolerant of this idea of defy, but maybe because I feel like I know too much how the sausage works. I'm like, I can only put so much in this because this it what is clear though is you now have more and more regular retail consumers.
Or retail investors. Now aware of interest rates that they aren't getting from the traditional institutions, and we already have our institutions at an all-time low of trust. And so, here is yet, one more knockout punch to be like, the hell are you doing for me? And that, you know, I have my own generational, baggage, the generation coming up the kids, the young people, the Jen's, he's listening to this. They give 0 FC about the, the way things used to be, right? And they don't have any the bye.
That we're encumbered with that. I know at least holds me back. Sometimes I'm like, geez. I don't know and they're going to have an understanding of markets and supply and demand and things that like they'll be doing they're doing on their smart phones in class while I am and with infinite resources from podcast like this to YouTube and elsewhere to self-educate, man. It's going to be wild
curse of stealing their when they hit a net worth that is like interesting. Imagine. Somebody has grown up buying skins on Xbox and PlayStation.
A station is like Oh, you mean in FTS? They're like skins that I can actually only money off of. Yeah, like it's just going to be a no-brainer versus we're like, ah, what are these entity things all about? Like, you know,
yes and and the kids who made money flipping sneakers for the last 10, 15 years are similar, right? They were of that. Ilk, that were the earliest adopters, the alternative assets that realized culture and scarcity have value. So, I'm going to flip these using eBay or goat investor stock X etcetera, going to get all my disclosures in. And, and I look at this, and I'm like, damn this.
Exciting because because this generation is going to think digital first and I know look mild. I'm going to have to explain to my daughter why I played all those hours of video games as a kid and never got anything for it and worse. Why I spent money on things that I didn't actually own because it will be so foreign to her generation and then like layer this up, right? So,
Okay, here's where things get get fun. All right, so I had my first job was mowing lawns and I was probably like same school. All right, and you remember the first time you got handed some money from a stranger or not a strange, but a neighbor for doing A Hard Day's work and I got
the million dollars to mow a lawn. Yeah, I felt
like great, right. Because yeah, learning money for your work and you're associating it with this crumpled up, green Bill, and that's a feeling, right? It's the sand and it builds up your entire life.
And so if I hand you $10 today in USD, is that a Madison? Anyway, I hand you a ten dollar bill, you know what that feels like cuz it's evoking all those feelings. If I handed you $10 in Japanese Yen. I don't let you spend a ton of time Japan. He's Pride to actually find rlsa are eye-catching but ten ten dollars in Deutsche marks now. Malik now gone, but like I guess would have been worth whatever 10,000 Euros is too. Common Argentinian Pesos. I do where I hand you something in a different currency.
Even if I tell you, it's worth $10, you're going to look at, you're going to feel it. And it's going to feel a little for Not, You Know, You're Gonna Google it and you're gonna be like, okay, I guess but it's not going to feel the same and that's this irrational Bond. It's sort of perfectly exemplifies Fiat because at the end of the day, right? You just it's just a piece of paper that's like shiny and has some dead person on and you're like, okay, I feel a way about this. Okay? An entire generation is I mean, there's some are going to still be mowing lawns. I hopes, great job, those those Robo lawn mowers are
To a bunch of kids are going to they're going to make that money playing a game and they're going to feel that warm and fuzzy not with the crumpled of green USD. They're going to fill it with the E token or the access tokens. Whatever. Is there collecting dude that shapes an entire generation of think so differently about time and effort and value creation. I mean, in a way that's not like, oh ATMs are replacing bank. Tellers or oh, you can pay using your phone instead of paper money. It means. Oh, thank you so much. Not dead president on the
USD. Thank you so much, like internet for facilitating this world. And that's the like, and I'm not Luke. I'm not a crypto Anarchist. I really like Civil Society. I'm just thinking ahead to when a generation feels this kind of affinity to, to something that doesn't have. There's no nation-state attached to it. There's no Army attached to it. There's no even physical feeling to it. And and that's just going to seem obvious and how they will value assets. How will they value, how they will?
You their time is going to be so foreign to us and I'm hanging on and trying my best to keep up because this is it's going to hit sooner than we realize and and the implications of that are a big deal. They're a big deal. Yeah,
and it is hard to keep up and especially as you get older, right? Because we are so baked in our old thinking, I know, see this stuff that just like you just, I was asked by a reporter, the other day. They were doing a story on the information about just VCS and web three.
There's a whole slew of VC's that, just have no clue what's going on with 13 now, and they're just like, completely out of the loop. And, and she asked me, she's like, why do you think this is? And I said, well, my best, guess is that to be into
web 3. You don't just have to be a VC. You actually
have to be an entrepreneur because you have to be willing to kick the tires on things and try new things as there and you do install beta software and do all the weird stuff. That is. Like you probably don't have time to do because you have kids
All kinds of other things and other commitments, but you have to set some time around to Tinker. And if you're not willing to do that, you're just going to be locked in web to thinking or web one or wherever you last were right?
Yes, dude. You're so right. Although you're giving VC's too much credit for assuming that they do any work, but
you're right. Certain amount of when someone has a certain net worth on the VC side. I've seen the productivity plummets for sure
totally, unless unless they are.
Are twisted and and are not in it. They're in it for something else. Yeah, but the Fred
Wilson's and the Sands like that, the Curious, the curious. I
mean I and I like I'll Chris can attest to this. I will text him every few months and and half jokingly, but have serious. Be mad at him for basically funding all of the new internet. And and the reality is you're right. You're going to see a difference between the Fred's and the Chris is and the others who sort of helm.
Or have lots of a um, because of that genuine, curiosity and a genuine hunger. And so it's not age-dependent. Although it is a lot easier, once you're older and have kids and other responsibilities to block it off. But I mean, I like, I can't wait and let me as a little older, I can play with her and it's considered research. So she's only four. So right now we're kind of limited on
that. But so no second kid, just 10 min
on. I don't want to break any news here II. We're like God willing, we'll have a basketball team. That's what I told my wife when we were
Again, we're getting together. I was like, look if this, this goes somewhere, I want 5, so we'll see, we'll see. But that the bigger move here. Is that mindset? And I think you're totally right. This is, and this kind of goes back, this goes back to the liability Point, having the established reputation, and having sort of made it and figured out the world is actually huge liability, because now you come in with this bias, and I have to challenge it. I had we were talking to Bobby.
Hundreds about this. And I thought this was so smart. We're and he's an OG from streetwear and Street culture. He said the moments when I feel most kind of disconnected and and like insecure and confused and frustrated with with some new thing. Those are the moments when I check myself to lean in to learn more and and for someone who's been at the top of this craft. Now, I think really across eras. Your that. That was it was such perfect advice because that's the feeling. I don't want.
To ever lose, right? That's where folks start slipping and and, and that's the part. I'll see if I can think, if I can put on business dad hat. That's the thing. I want to encourage in my kid, which is, I think just useful in life. But certainly if you want to stay on top of web three Trends, which is the things that are going to challenge your thinking in the sort of most initially kind of repulsive ways. Again, like, intellectual thoughtful things are going to be the areas to be like, okay. Why does this hurt me? Why does this?
Him totally foreign or weird or different because that's where the growth happens. Yes. I mean and it, dude, it is so hard to not be excited irui. I have never been this excited in 16 years. There's no point at Reddit. There's no point in any my VC career. Any point in my life, where career-wise, I've been more excited than I have in the last year.
Yeah. I mean for I'm agree that like I definitely went to it was really excited. Like that, was that?
Was those were fun early days, but but it you're right that this unlocks the promise of a lot of what we thought might come out of web to but just didn't ever kind of, you know, yeah, you're right. This is much bigger. I get it if this all works and it will it might take time but it is it is is going to have a much larger impact than just us creating another centralized organization that feeds a few hundred million people.
Yeah.
Toad, that's a big deal. Yeah, it's a huge gotta say, I mean, like I and I'm trying, I'm, I know this is the high before the fall and this is the time when everyone says, it's different. That's when things go wrong, but I keep trying to stay grounded. I keep talking to as many smart people as I can about all the things that could derail us, whoever and I I still keep coming back to this feeling of holy shit. No, this really does feel different. This feels like the moments I read about as a kid in the history book of like all these are formative moments, right? The the
Start of the United States. The French Revolution, like all these very very important moments in society that had implications that shaped humanity. And in many ways.
And I'm like, oh my God, we're actually living through one of these. It's truly Global and to be in the position that you and I are in based on our experience and our Network and our Capital. Other things like this is the driving. This is truly living the dream, not a time that I think will shape so much of our future, and more importantly, our kids and grandkids Futures. And I'm just like, man, we got to make the most out of this. Like, yeah, I mean,
I'll tell you a secret that I don't think I've ever mentioned on a
Podcast, but good, when I was alive to when I was a, as a partner over Google Ventures, we had a team of, you know, over ten people. There was a closer 15 people. That did nothing. But right, kind of, and this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I don't know how and what depth but, but do nothing but write code, algorithms, that would predict based on a variety of factors. How successful startup was going to be early on. Okay. So what we did is at partner meeting
That piece of software was given kind of like a full partner vote more or less, where we would plug in all the data and that would data would be like, you know, Founders name of the company how long it had been around? Who else had backed the company? The address of the company and one of the. Yeah. Well, here's the crazy thing. One of the things that the software was telling us and and they were aiming, this is all pulling from Google Corpus of data, to Sir, big massive data sets. One of the things the software was telling
This is that in the last 20 years of venture. It had been proximity to the Bay Area. That was one of the biggest predictors of success. So how close you were to the Bay Area?
And what's crazy about web? 30 is almost
every founder. I meet is not in the Bay Area. It's gonna be like a maybe 10%, maybe we
15, but everybody is so diverse and
so Global
that is really exciting to me. Dude. What are you still in the parent
know? I'm in Portland, Oregon now, say,
Dude, I got out of there as soon as I could. I just I'm not have an East Coast kid. And so it was inevitable that I was going to make it back East. I didn't think I'd be in Florida. But my wife five years ago, I hate that idea. I look yes. It is really good on the tax front. I came here just simply because she's very convincing and was like, Hey, the weather's great. We travel all the time, only be there for the holidays, which all true statements, but then covid happened. And I'm sitting here on my little farm living my life, like it's
Saying I got fruit trees. I got chickens. Like I'm a Florida man now and so I bet Oregon, you got a good good setup your with all the things you need, all the people you need. And dude. This is the promise of the internet. The whole idea was supposed to be. You could be anywhere and you could start a start-up and you didn't have to be in the bay and I believe those numbers. Now, I think we've it's safe to say we've obliterated those writers, which is exciting, man. And
Better again. It's just better for all of us now. Talent has so much leverage. I mean this the number one thing on my mind on Kaitlyn's Mom. I'm here at the firm for next year is, how do we build this org to support the new world of recruiting and talent? Where Talent has infinite leverage? And and we need and our Founders need our CEOs. Need to figure out how to access the best people in the world, how to entice them, how to still build cultures and remote or flexible. First work environment, like this stuff. Here's another Playbook. That's getting
In not Rewritten, just written from scratch. And again, it gives more leverage to the people who do the do the real work. The the Creator is the workers. I mean, it's there's so many democratizing parts of this. Yeah, that I like, I even think of not just the folks who do the work but then the folks who are the kind of like tastemakers or the early, like curators of culture. That historically have never been in the equation at all, who played a really
Valuable role. Like the first kids not just the first creators of like hip-hop. Not just the first people on turntables mixing records live or re mixing them live, but then the people who then took those tapes and, and started handing them out to their friends, right? And you see this music is such a good example because it's so mimetic. But like, you can see this in every genre of music at every point, you know, there were so many people in the equation between the actual first craters on the stage and then the ones who actually monetize it and then the people who actually made all the money
Money. Right and gone like we can actually now reimagine every one of those things in a world where yeah, if you're early and right and you meant some board Apes. There was a story today of a photographer who had one sale for. It was one of half million dollars and it's changed his life. God bless him for being early and missing this one project. And that's here's okay. I love you. I had to double down on this stuff too. Because Kevin like I now forgive me. You might have had a whole like ten episodes about this on Modern Finance, but the we are all
In a scenario where like I or anyone is reluctant to say, cell aboard, it because of the fomo because of the sort of utility that's emerging around it.
Loss aversion all this. All these reasons, I mean, Dogecoin still has like a twenty five billion dollar market cap for no reason but like there's this communal strength that we know Israel in the internet, but in the next six months maybe sooner maybe a little later, you financially won't have to sell that asset because you're going to have the defy infrastructure. Maybe it already exists and I should have invested in it to just lend nor borrow against it right to say. Hey, look I need to I got to pay some bills. It rich people do this all the time where you have a bunch of stocks in the stock market, your Banks. Like I got you. That's a liquid.
Asset. We know what it's worth. Will let you borrow up to this much against it and it's actually a really smart way spoiler. It's how rich people make a lot of money because they don't have to sell the stock in order to benefit from the value of it so they can buy their stuff. Okay. That will
exist. So it's already out there. Yeah. Absolutely. There's enough TX. There's fractionalize are to there's a bunch of ways to do it. But yeah, it's it's all relatively new
that user experience is going to get seamless and it will be the default. And so if you think all these holders
Of Apes, let's say are never going to sell their definitely, never going to have to sell when they could just borrow against the asset. So what happens, there's a fixed. There's a limited Supply that Supply is going to shrink, as more and more people have more incentives because the utility goes up because the sort of whatever the sex appeal of it goes up and just financially. They don't actually have to sell it. Some of Jesse's, praise gonna
come on, dude. I saw a crazy idea. The other day were was just like, basically, talking about. Let's just say, you take all the blue chip in a teaser out there, right?
Think of them less like because of course, they're art. Okay, we checked that box, but what if they were to be bundled together and they could serve as the cultural underpinnings of a currency so that you can lend against them. So imagine like a future Dogecoin is backed by a bunch of different nfc's that are the backbone of the, that's the supporting structure and value on this from the Jets could be. So, I'm
Ill. I'm in. I mean that like,
This is and and what's Wild is nothing about what you're saying, is a technological feat at this point. Right? Like, it's all this is this regulations. The only comes on The Willpower me, man. And then the regulation part. I know, but remember, these are not Securities. These are just assets and, yeah, it's crazy. We talked
about, like, if rationalizing and of tease people can say, well now you're offering that up as an investment, like, in of teas and it's just a, it's a nightmare real quick. I know what I know you.
Limited time we're coming up on our, I have a few more rapid, fire questions for you or it makes. So why why in a pond your profile versus a punk? And what are your thoughts on punks? Dude? I bought seven of
them that I bought seven. That looked like my wife last year because I well, I wanted to I wanted to get a punk. I didn't find any that looked like me and for the first time in my life, as a white dude with a beard, I was like, why is there? Nothing that looks like me fun? All right. This is a good experience and I checked it out for my wife and I was like, hey, these are way cheaper than they should be and
And I saw this, this one with the headband and dark skin and dark hair. And I was like, oh this is this looks like Serena. So I just bought seven of them gave one to her and and then our great great. Great great. Great grandkids can appreciate the fact that they're great. Great grandpa. I made a good decision, but really imbuing all the, obviously great things. My life is done in that art. So that's the only reason I would just feel weird. I should actually bug her about putting she doesn't mess on social social media. Unfortunately is not a fun place to be, if you are someone like her.
So, she doesn't spend a lot of time there. But why do I put the eye? Just because they ate but I felt the Abe actually looked like me. Do you do like the community? Do you spend time in their
Discord at all? Yeah, and you
know, what's Wild? I you know, I reached out and got to know the Apes, pretty early after the launch and like, any good investor. I was like hey, so what can I do to be helpful and, and they were just like, I don't know, just like do you? I was like, oh, that's there's a home. This is a whole new world.
world like this is a
There is something really special about.
Like I said, this feels kind of punk rock. I don't remember punk. I wasn't alive during the whole punk rock thing, but it feels very not corporate. I know, I'm the corporate dude. Who shows up to be liking? How can I be helpful, but I love the fact that there were like nothing just like, I don't know, enjoy your apes. And I was like, okay that's good. Um, and and it's been wild even like identity NYC going hanging out with folks. Just even walking around in public and seeing someone with the
Even if they don't own the ape, but they're part of the extended Community. Dude, it I flashed back to read it. I know this is supposed to be lightning round stuff. The feeling I had. So, okay, first fight that we had, as Founders. This was like a month in a Reddit, was I wanted to sell merch? And in Steve was like, that's a terrible idea. It's the stupid. Don't waste our money and I was like no, no. No. This was, you know, CEO override. I was like, I'm gonna buy 300 shirts with the red Italian was new and and this is before Shopify. So is before stride. This is like janky
Pals. Are you holding up yourself? Ship, dude, aside put this thing up. I tell everyone, we sell out 24 hours. The next morning. I have garbage bags. I stuffed all the envelopes myself, signed them, drag them all down to the post office and mailed them out. And it was amazing because people were willing to put on their torso, this logo that it only existed for a few months based on just random connections between Anonymous strangers on are janky little website, and I'm sitting here watching what's happening.
Now and I'm like, oh my God, like, this is all of that Essence. But like, I mean, yes, if you have one of the original Reddit shirts, maybe you could flip it for a few bucks on eBay. But, like, none of the value created or upside captured from those people. I'm so grateful. Those people's people were so fucking valuable, but they couldn't be properly rewarded in 2005. They can be today. And so when I see it happen with board Apes, I'm like, ah, man. It's likes new 2.0 and and the way it's being executed is so, punk rock, and so awesome. And
Ewan, and I just like so yeah, I mean, I love, I love dabbling in this stuff mostly because it fulfills this part of me that feels like the hope and promise and potential of Reddit, now gets the flourish across the internet and it's so much more democratized and I don't know. And then I most of the stuff that I buy I buy because it's either like looks nice. The community Vibes or it's something that I I'm usually just buying for my wife or daughter like I have a whole portfolio.
Of Doodles for Olympia that all like look like her and and I'm like weirdly sentimentally attached to these things because I believe in some I could be totally wrong and it's the lamest thing ever in like five years. If she's like,
oh, I want my profile
to picked be that doodle. My dad got me from when I was a toddler, but like I'm I'm trying to think ahead as to what that new savings bond looks like. Yeah, and and I know it's got to be web 3 and I don't have the heart to lie.
Like, invest in Shiba Inu on her behalf. So instead I'll stick to beautiful kind of tease.
Ya listing, put them up around the house to, you know, like one of the things that I always talk to my audience about is when thinking about, making a Nifty investment decision, like this is going to be the classic, you know, risk roller coaster over the next, you know, few years. And so we're going to have is flying it to flip the no bike by it because he went to hang in your house for the next decade. And guess what if you bought? Well, then you're going to be doing fine, right? But this day
Think about a more is like something I'd like to have up and appreciate and then the price appreciation will come with time. So
100 percent of vote
man. Okay, two more quick questions that thank you. I don't want it anymore so I can beat up but I don't really care.
You know, what else? Can I tell you? Something else? Really Petty? I'm so happy. I didn't do this. I was this close to buying digg.com. What are you serious?
And then redirecting it to read it. Oh my God,
but I was like, that's just too Petty.
You could do it. But I remember when you took Reddit and you completely reskinned it to look like dig. Yeah, what was that for? April Fool's or something? Wasn't it? Yeah, it was a
pretty sure was for an April Fool's.
Yeah. I remember I remember going people are like, they're like Kevin they like they think they're like Reddit has changed their entire site to look like big and I'm like, shut up and it was a gorgeous sight. No, it's good. I mean, you guys were so good that guerrilla warfare. You know, it's like it's all we had ma'am. We're scrap, worked out. It was great.
Crabs, awesome. I love it. Cool. Couple more quick questions. Raising a child. What's been your biggest kind of, you know, lots of new dads out there. Probably listening. Like, obviously, you have a podcast around stuff like this. Like, but what are your, what's your biggest piece of advice for someone that's getting into this, this world?
Any favorite
books and he had like thing that my
my North Star on this is and I've talked to actually I got to get you on. We did one season in covid Hit And so I need to resurrect business dead. But I have talked to so many, super successful, alpha male leader dad's across every industry from Sports entertainment. Business startups, doesn't matter, and every single one of them without fail is like
This is the thing, especially the granddad's definitely say this, but this is the thing I know is going to be my legacy and no matter how successful I've been on the field, no matter how successful I've been in business no matter whatever. Like this is it this is the thing that matters and so I I want I want to create spaces for more and more really successful driven career-oriented dad's to be able to talk about it because we do care. I find overwhelmingly, We Care
We struggle with it. We know we're not great at it. And there's so many like it's, it looks like it's a gift and a curse to have a career that I absolutely love and I suspect you feel this way to kind of like I could do this every day. Like it's the best thing ever. It's the greatest job ever, right? And also know that like, I've got a responsibility here to be a father, be a role model to be present for this stuff and that's attention. And I know, I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to have all of the infrastructure, who can afford all the stuff to make it work as efficiently as possible. And so,
I think I want to learn as much as I can from other folks who've been a little further along and the part they just keep coming back to is the fact that these moments really are precious and that giving your attention in those moments and it's so hard with this all the time, but that I try to make such a concerted effort when I'm on the clock as Dad to be there to be locked in. And it only, frankly took a couple of times of Olympia to be like Papa. Put the phone away for me to be like, Chuck. Okay. Yeah. All right. You're right and it, sometimes I'm
Babe, I'm just trying to take a cute video you for Grandpa and she's like, I don't care, right? Like dollar shoes, which the photo I promise. I'm not texting but that I want to see more and more dad's talking about, it makes me so happy to see and I think our generation of Dad's now has the freedom. We own the microphones, we get to take control to not just Homer Simpson, sort of dad takes and and really talk about the fact that like, this is the best thing we're ever going to do and we still care a ton about being great at our work, but this is important.
Oughtn't. And, you know, look, if you make a lot of mistakes, you just try your best and that's that's 99% of it at the end of the day.
Yeah, that's true. Would like for me if I get the, it's the data, will you come do this? And if I you know, I've got that email sitting over there that laptop sitting over there and I'm in the middle of something. It's like I unless it's an absolute emergency. I always am like of course and then design that gets pushed to the back burner because there were requesting my time and it's like
The only way that this mall for so long. It has to be gone, man. Thing. It seems the gods of I'm already missing it with my older one, you know, she's getting, I can barely hold her that thrown on my back.
So it's like
it's going fast. Next question, I have for you relationship advice, you know anything, you know, I know because of you, you're in a hundred tough place because it's like celebrity stuff. I don't want you to stay stuff that's going to get in trouble and I'm bringing TMZ or whatever. But like, yeah, how do you, how do you
guess who's having a kid is tough and is covid-19.
On the personal relationship side. I think one of the highest Roi Investments you can make in your relationship. I so.
I think. So for sure, even throw the celebrity part out, navigating a relationship navigating marriage as a white dude. With a black woman means, I am default putting myself in a situations where I want to like, always be learning because it's in in make it's actually it's the best classroom for it because it's coming. Always from a place of love. Like I know no matter what even
If I say something stupid, even if I have these, just unintentional bias has that like, she catches. I know we're still unit. We're still a team. She's saying it because she loves me. She not like it's these are easy, you know, these are harder conversations to have with friends or even harder conversations to have with strangers their conversations. We need to have as a country overall and I think in particular it's a privilege that I get to have them and hear them and feel them and experience them because I get to have a higher degree of empathy. Now, because again, I'm I'm looking out for a daughter that I
can.
Only. It's hard enough as a dad trying to relate to your daughter because you know gender but then you layer on the fact that she's going to have a very different lived experience as a black woman than I will ever had as a black man. So there's there's layers to and I want to be an active student and I think the best advice I would give myself, get it going into marriage is number one. You don't need to be the CEO of every, you don't need to co every situation. And I think the biggest challenge for me over the last. Gosh, 45 years has been realizing like not.
Every problem needs a solution like right there and, and more often than not, it is okay to actually not engineer a solution for it. And that is a mindset in business that I just can't. I write my brain is just naturally wanting to solve problems. It's just I trained to get my little biscuit for forces solving problems. And that's that's the the muscles. And so it has been a hell of a learning experience. It is definitely work. No doubt anyone who says otherwise is lying.
I'm therapy is a huge asset, couples therapy, couples counseling to call it a huge asset. Definitely do it. And, and shout out to all my, all my listeners in interracial relationships. Because I do think there's an extra level there and especially with the Dynamics, right? Like, I've literally lived my life at the top of the social pyramid in the United States. My wife has literally lived her life at the bottom of the social pyramid, the United States, when you think of all the, the sort of biases and all those things that are locked in and I take for granted even most basic things.
The fact is literally everywhere. I go, people will listen to me or assume that I should be there. And I've never ever had these moments of feeling things that she had and many others had just even just casually walking down the street which is wild. I'm a big fella to even little things man. It's it's wild knowing like, I've never gotten into an elevator with someone and had them shrink away and and I talk to my nephew, who's the sweetest dude on the planet and I hear
The stuff that he has to go through as a black dude in America, and I'm just like, wait, what? I mean, they had I got. Yeah. I've literally never my presence has never made a single person or woman would ever feel uncomfortable in a physical space. And I'm six foot five, dude, lumbering around like it's the little things that have been a constant education on all be learning for the rest of his life that has made it. It's made it harder at times because I'm also like why, why does it like in these moments? I wish we could remove all this other stuff, but I know
It comes in every conversation. We have? Yeah. Well, I mean, I know what kind of podcast is this Kevin? No, it's good. The Oprah Winfrey.
No, I like it. I like it because more than one of the things that man, I I tell you I've come to appreciate in. I've is just that I'm on this quest to kind of be this. This person that never shuts down in his someone, that does a lifelong learner. Like I think that she's like the best way to possibly be. And so I'm always asking these questions because I want to figure out ways that I
Can continue to evolve and improve, and I found that when I'm most vulnerable, and I can go out there. I mean, it's the only way I can learn. I think the lot of mistakes I made a dig where, because I was so shut off. I was like, no. No, I know this. Even though it secretly, I didn't know what I was doing, you know, and it's like, I've so for me, I asked questions like this of all the people I chat with, because I want to want to figure out, what should I be learning? What am I not paying attention to, you know, where my bias is that? I'm not saying like so it's really
helpful.
Let me give you one piece of advice that I'll steal which is, it's not even a humble brag. It's just a Bradley's. So I got a few minutes with President Obama and must have been amazing. It's pretty dope. Pretty do not gonna lie. And and he's also a very well-known girl dad and I ask them for advice. I was like, what advice would you give to a fairly new father of a daughter? And he said, well,
the thing you want to keep in mind for your daughter is every day. It's a pretty good. Is every day, the way that you treat her mother is the way that she's going to expect other men to treat her. So role model, the behavior, the the you want her to expect from a man. That's your job. And and I'm like, okay, mr.
President. Oh my God, that is so good. Was it really good?
And and I
And that's
always stuck with me and I think a pretty good deed to be getting some father advice from her husband advice from and and it stuck with me. Because now I'm just like, wow. Okay, like let's like the even in this this put more responsibility. I made a say, okay, let's make sure we're doing the work not just when it's us in private but also in public and in front of her, yeah, and so for her to see cuz like I had I mean we could make this podcast even longer we can talk about my own experiences grow by. I feel very
A fortune. I had a very loving mom and dad, but I also saw a dynamic there that like as I've gotten older, I've understood more layers to and I think this is just the gift and the curse of getting older as you start to reinterpret and reimagine a lot of the stuff. And, and so now I'm like, oh man, this actually had a huge like there are there are good and bad things. There's all this stuff that plays into how I now come to expect a relationship. And and so I try to run that script in my head when I'm like
Like, let me think through how we're going to handle this situation, because I'm not just solving this problem. Today. I'm giving Olympia sort of a blueprint for how she should be thinking about solving it in 50 years.
Yeah, and they pick up on all the little nuances, you know? Yeah, exactly
everything.
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, Alexis do, this has been great. I'm so glad we did
this. I am to Kevin and I like I was I was not ashamed of begging to be on your podcast.
And I'm so happy. Happy to do this,
man. Well, do when you reboot the the the end of your company besides I'd lousy that.
And then we're going to do a cross-country Road show where we do some kind of we need a name for it. Can live podcast Jana life podcasting thing. I did have a great web three years. And yes, I'm game. If you're game. Let's, you know, I'm not I'm not playing around with all this code stuff, settled. Next year. I would I would love I would love to ride on your
Hotels recently
still wanted like a tee NYC or something like that. Yeah,
that'd be fun. Donner. Come down to Florida. Have a little fun doubt of Bosnia. I don't do that said. I'd love to, okay. All right, so it's happening one or the other or both. If tossin people want, also congrats on proof. Oh, thank you, dude. I mean I this is why I'm still wondering like Kevin. I know. I mean, I know you've got a great gig over true, you know, but kind of cat like pretty.
I mean, do anything. I mean, a
dude II hear you and I honestly, I gotta say and this isn't just me, kissing my employers ask, but like, like true has been just a fantastic firm for me. I'd be at, and I raise capital from them a bunch of times before. So I was looking on both sides of the
aisle. Yeah,
and, you know, dude, our next one's going to be a billion dollars plus so like it's a nice coin. It's big. It's big dollars out of playing around with it II. Can't go out and raise a billion dollar fund on my own. So,
I mean, I would be your first check just to be clear. I appreciate that. That's a testament. I hope I'm 90 true knows, but like I mean I if I don't know if that's true marketing materials look like, but they should just have a photo of Kevin Rose and be like web 3, we've got it figured out. Did you know what the coolest thing
about them is they have been like, I've been like I want to do a podcast. Okay, go do it. Boom. I want to do an fft drop Market, of course, back, do it because they like, they know that there's this entrepreneurial kind of driving me and they're like, it's gonna come around and we've
Already seen that. Like, you know, when I had Eric, the founder of our blocks on the show, we ended up leading his round, you know, like, so some of these connections all just kind of work.
So what are we going to cook Thai? The last time I tried to get you in on, Riverside? What are we gonna do? I
know you should have to be. I should have done Riverside because now that I look at what they've built because when I first saw it, I was like, oh, I use in Caster blah, blah. And now I look what they've built them live streaming on Twitter and it's like, this is it for people that don't know what we're talking about. If you're watching just watching the stream on Twitter, Riverside dot f m--. Alexis tried to get me to invest.
I pass on it and it's a killer podcasting platform. So, it's pretty awesome. Now, free. I'm looking out for you code,
but we're going to plenty of things to cook on man will be told to
Tiananmen investor in your fun. So I
lied and I swear, I'm very grateful, man. No, I do, dude. It's II. I plan to make you a lot of money and and then you know what? We can then go and buy digg.com and use it for something. I was
just gonna say if credit ever goes downhill. I promise not to buy it and forward it to my website.
I can't promise. I might, you might still do it. I wouldn't
blame you. I wouldn't blame you one bit.
Awesome brother will good chatting
like wise guy. Thank you so much, dude. I, again, I had so much respect for you. You've been ahead of the game. If you're listening this podcast, you're going to make it because you're listening to Kevin. I listen to Kevin. You should listen to Kevin, tell your friends. Thanks brother. The respect is me. It shows, have
thanks for giving Mom. I
this is fun. All right, we're doing this again. All right, here we go. Let's clap boom. See you man.
