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Everybody. Welcome to another episode of impact Theory. I am here with a face that I think everybody is going to recognize mr. Matthew McConaughey. Thank you for joining me, man.
Good to be here, Town. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely, dude, I am super excited. Your book was so much fun and I listened to the audiobook. So I got to hear you performing it and okay doing impressions and voices. I was really into it. I actually had sat down at one point. I was just going to do like a quick 15 minutes and then I had other things that I had
And to do sort of in a different sequence and the book sucked me in and I ended up reading it listening to it and almost one shot. It was really fantastic.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Absolutely man I love that you've gotten into what I would refer to as the mindset space. Just you know walking people through what you've learned over a pretty extraordinary life and career. What was the the origin behind? Wanting to write the book?
I've been threatening to go away and see if those 36 years of Diaries, were worthy of putting into book form of in threatening myself. Do that for 15 years, never had the courage to do it figure. Do you know what? In martyrdom, my wife or a good friend? Oh, look at those Diaries and journals, and if anything's worth sharing, they'll share it. And that was sort of a tri-axial sort of chicken and out, but that idea. So maybe it was coming on 50. Although I'm not a sort of a numerologist where I think
I've got to do things by a certain time but maybe that had something to do with it. I hired a Ghostwriter first to help me. We had one meeting and then he got pulled from the job by his boss and that was the best gift I could have been given. That was when it said, okay, you need to go away and my wife backed me up said. Yes, get out of here, take that Treasure Chest full of journals and go see what you got. I felt like I had enough, I didn't know what it was, what I was going to be. I actually thought it was gonna be much more academic than maybe it ended up being and early on in the writing process. I remember I had to pull
Go back and go just look at what you have and let it reveal itself and what revealed itself was stories. People places, prescriptions, Poems Prayers and a whole lot of bumper stickers. So, there are my seven stacks. And then the central theme that came out of those was the title of the book, green light.
Now, one of the, I don't know if you'd call it a bumper sticker or a prescription, but one of the things that you quote, pretty early on, in the book and seem to inform a lot of the
The core thesis of the book is the Gore Vidal quote, which is style is knowing who you are, what you have to say, and not giving a damn. And I thought that was really fantastic. When I think about somebody having the sort of it factor that makes an actor memorable and allows them to stick with people. I mean, you know, starting as sort of a completely unknown kid working in a bar where a producer happen to come through. And I think about how you translate that you go into detail about why that quote
Impacted you so much. What is it about that? Quote, the idea of knowing yourself that you found so useful.
Well, what better subject to study than ourselves? What better subject to interrogate investigate daily. What what's the one character that we are never going to get that? We should never get bored with chasing to figure out. But also what's the one? That's also, the one carat that we can't get away from
Ourselves. It's the one person that we can't get rid of. So I have enjoyed and not enjoyed investigating myself through through my life. I write about this in the book. I don't, you know, to form a personal style or to know who we are or what we want, that's hard to do. So I have learned to by process of elimination, get rid of the things that you go, oh well, that is not me or that is just a fad. That's not going to ever be classic that go that does not feed me.
Me that maybe for instance there are certain Pursuits. We go. Yeah, that may be an immediate green light that's just plugged into a battery but at that lights going to go out because that battery is going to die. That's not truly solar-powered green light. So how to style is finding those things, we go, that's a solar-powered green light. That's that's who I am and who I am not. So we figured who were not first. I found that I was able to figure out who I was by process of elimination. It's also, you know, I'd rather be
Good man than a nice guy, that that happens later and that that come, that's part of style. You know, I've always said this, I'm I'd rather have an asshole than a dork, why? Because at least I know where the asshole stands, the dorks, trying to be everything to everybody that he thinks they want them to be. I don't want to be that. I don't, I don't really enjoy being around that person because I can't trust him. And when I've been one, I couldn't trust myself. So stop.
I was also about you know once you do find your frequency on something, is it go forward if you're a non Tyrant and don't ask permission and that's the not giving a damn part. I found that the world will actually acquiesce can go. Yep I'll give you a green line that green light on that if you actually go forward and mean it like you're in you're going to do it by hook or by Crook and not ask permission.
Yeah, there's several stories in the book about you not asking permission whether it's
Stealing the lumber to build the Treehouse, which is a lot of fun. And then one thing that I really liked was, when you first came to Hollywood and you were staying with a producer and he basically said, man you you seem like you need a job and if you seem like you need a job, you never going to get one and there's there's something about breaking into Hollywood. That seems like the most sort of psychological break in where everything else is. It's more of a skill, right? Can you do the accounting better? You can get a job in accounting but they're really.
He is an intangible thing to breaking into Hollywood where people want to watch you. There's just something where the fact that this guy recognized, that after spending a night with you and a bar, I think it was in a cab ride home or something, where he says, they ever thought about acting talk to me about cultivating that the, the I don't give a damn part and how that trip riding motorcycles in Sweden or wherever it was. Jeremy that being exactly what you needed.
So I move out to Hollywood. I've just did days.
Infuse the summer of 92, I go back and graduate from University of Texas at Austin in 93, I do Quick-Step Miss Texas, Chainsaw Massacre film. And then I drive out with my U-Haul and 2,000 bucks to sleep on the couch of that guy that I met in the bar. Two years prior, who got who cast me? My first job, $2,000. I know I'm sleeping on his couch. Not paying rip, $2,000 going to go pretty quickly, and I'm starting to after about two weeks and on a dime, and I need to
Could you get me a meeting with an Asian man? Need to get an agency. I needed a job and he snaps at me. And as you read, the book cusses me out and tells me, look, this town smells needy. You're done you, what you need to do is get the hell out of here. And go do something with your buds and forget about Hollywood and what you think you need. Anyway, I did, I took off with my two buddies with what little money we had and we motorcycle through Europe for six weeks.
By the time I got back, I forgot all about needing an agent or oh, I need to get a part. I just had great life experience for six weeks and so he then brings it up about a week after I'm back goes. You're ready? I go for what? And he goes tomorrow morning we got the meeting with the agent. I'm like, oh great, he was right on the money because I was able to go into that meeting and be myself. Be involved in that meeting and not be so impressed that I got that meeting. I talked
That in the book, less impressed more involved. You know it's a trick but it works in our life. I mean sometimes if something is number one on our list and we got to have it all. We need it, we need
A lot of times we don't get it. Think about it, whether it's that girl, or whether it's, that friend, or whatever it is, man, if you make them the number one thing in your life, they gonna go like, well, what else did you have going before? You, you came to me, you know what I mean? I want somebody who had had their shit together before they came, came to me a little bit, if I'm your everything, then I'm probably a lot of times people go or situations will say, no, we don't want you because you need us too bad, something about taking that trip to Germany. Got that need out of my mind and
The idea of getting a job or an agent in Hollywood became subliminally. Number two, on my list of priorities, just by sheer that I kind of forgotten about. It wasn't thinking about it all the time. Well, that allowed me to relax be involved in a meeting with an agent where they accepted me to, then go out on auditions and actually get them because I was like I really want this but I don't need it. There's a very there's a big difference and Hollywood is is and fame. There's a game.
In Hollywood, it is an affair. It's not necessarily marriage, and there's a game to play, and it's better to be better to want it and not need
it. If the idea of confidence, you've got the Southern Charm, there's no question. And I'm sure you have a certain level of awareness about that, you know, one thing that I find, so interesting about actors is they're so good at conveying emotion. They understand how they're coming across and that level of self-awareness, is obviously part of their power. When you think about developing,
I'm self-awareness and translating that into confidence is that tied to how much preparation you do? You know how do you begin to in your early 20s? Have the kind of confidence where you can walk in with a Swagger? Not need it and and you know, Captivate people like that?
Well, I mean I've always been very intentional. I will say this
Part of it.
Is don't.
Worried don't give a damn about the aware and don't get objective. Don't hop out of yourself and say, how am I being received early?
The best work I've done and I am very aware of that. But then the best work I've done in my career is when my head's down the process and it is completely a subjective experience. And I don't give a damn what you think about or what anyone else thinks about it. And I sure as hell don't give a damn about the result because I'm in it and I'm so in it that the last day of shooting
They are wrap and I go, okay. I'll see you tomorrow morning for the tomorrow's work and they go. No, it's over like we've finished film shooting wrap, there is no tomorrow. Then I'm like become objective for the first time so in many ways and I think especially today, not just in an acting career, but in all of our careers athletes, everything is with so much room to be objective. What are we on our phone? There's a Jumbotron.
Immediate response. When we put something out, we may be becoming to objective or measuring tool. We're giving too much, Credence to awareness of. Oh, how am I perceived? You know, kids these days. It's what they put out how its received. If it's got enough thumbs up, they have a good day. If it's got enough thumbs down, they have a bad day. So their entire are being in our attitude and how we feel about ourselves is more Reliant. We're letting it be more reliant on what other people think about us today than ever before.
I say lean into the subjective. I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks I'm done it but I'm going to chase down and do. What's true is to me
And then it's time to pop out sometimes and read your reviews or have a look at the Jumbotron. ER watch that watch that performance on playback, it's okay. But but but if you're thinking about the result or thinking in the third person too early, I don't believe you do near as good or true of a job.
In the first person subjectively that you could do.
Yeah. Your, your approach. I find very intriguing in the book. You talk about these walkabouts that you go on. And I I love that there seems to be a process to what you do versus like. If everything just came easily to you, it would be far less interesting and far less instructive. But in the book it's what I was trying to explain this to my wife and sister and I was saying you've got to read this book like it's actually really fascinating.
To hear how he has ends of having a wet dream that sends him to South America, to float naked in the Amazon River. And in that moment. Because, you know, has these realizations that he crystallizes in this journal, and then he comes back and actually lives them. And that like, when I think about people trying to come up with their identity, trying to create the space, to figure out who they are, who they're not to your point, but they're they're, they're trying to figure that out. They don't know how to create that space. What?
The the walkabouts the driving around the in your 20s you could have just posted up in Hollywood and gotten laid day after day after day. So the fact that you were driving around the u.s. floating in the Amazon, like, what's the intention behind that?
Yeah, well look, after that year that I had in Australia, where I
was tell people, that story a little quickly, the Doodles was absolutely fucking hilarious and I'm glad you found it funny. I think it's hilarious. It was it someone
Comedy. So
so I graduate high school Longview Texas. Now in my hat family which is a high discipline family, once you turn 18, poop Freedom, no curfew. If you hadn't learned to get not gonna learn it. Well, I've just graduated high school, I got 45 bucks my pocket from a job. I got, I got a for handicapped. I've just made two holes in ones, 11 days apart, last month, I got the best. I'm digging the best-looking girl in my school and across town, I made Straight A's. So Mom and Dad are super happy. I got a car. That's
I paid for and I got no curfew and right out of that I decide I'm gonna go away to Australia to be an exchange student. It was a stray or Sweden and I remember writing down my 18 year old mine, sunny beaches Elle, Macpherson, English-speaking Australia. So I head off to Australia and I'm told by this family that I'm live with we live here. It's beautiful place, we live on. The outskirts of Sydney, You're Gonna Love It. Well, very quickly after I meet this family and three,
Drive out of Sydney, which is a bit of an exaggeration. But the outskirts are we arrive at this little small home in the middle of the country. Outside of the town that was population. 305 definitely not what I thought of the outskirts of Sydney Elle Macpherson was probably going to be nowhere close unless she was running across the the, the Ranch Land out there and there were no beaches in sight they did speak English. Oh, so one out of three anyway, that year there.
There was a trying one for me, where I had to find my identity and was forced to go introspective. I had ran across some very odd dealings and what was valuable about the year is remember where I was coming from all the green lights. I was catching rolling. Well, all of a sudden that was a screeching. Read, like, halt. I had no car. I had no money. I had no girlfriend. I had nobody's, I had no golf clubs. I did have a curfew and I just had nobody, I could question. So
Started writing and writing letters. And a lot of people wouldn't return those letters because those letters dry understand, they were getting very heady, and they were long, and they were laborious letters to whoever was reading them on the other end of the line. So I began writing letters to myself, and then I write a letter back to myself. Well, I'll give you all the details, but I decide to create resistance in my life things that I can overcome daily. Basically. I didn't know it then, but I was just just keep my Insanity sometimes, when we're lost and were like, I don't know what the hell.
Is going on life, for me. I began running six miles a day. I decide to become celibate for the entire year. I become a vegetarian. I'm, you know, I'm convinced, my calling is, to go to South Africa after this and help free Nelson Mandela. So when I'd run that six miles a day, when I would stay celibate when I would, you know, eat my head of iceberg lettuce with ketchup on it because I was a vegetarian. These were little things that I could achieve in the day to give me some force of. Okay, I did that.
Get me some sort of Sanity, but not toes. It's
partly about control. Like that's that's a lot of sort of self-denial. It's interesting that you talk shows. Hi disciplined
things. Yes. Well, you know trust, I mean there was a run in there where on Friday nights with the one bar in town I would go out and drink a hell of a lot more than I probably should have just to escape it, you know? I mean but during the week I needed these little things go. Okay, I can check that off my list because the rest of my
Life in my is anarchy right now and I don't know to trust what to believe what matters this is weird. I think, what's going on? I needed a few things I can. Okay, you ran six miles check, okay? You didn't eat meat again. You ate less check. You were celibate again. Check at each of these little these restrictions to give me some form or give me some sense of structure, where I can just feel my feet on the ground and go. I'm holding my head above water going through this time, but at least I know what rope to hold onto and it's
He's disciplines that I put in front of myself. Anyway, the year was wild and Kearney and a year, though that in hindsight, I would not be sitting here talking to you with the life. I have, if I did not have that year because
I learned to stick with myself. I learned I was never going to pull the parachute and say I'm going back home. Why not wild? Well, I given a handshake deal on it.
and I did just handshake deal meant that much to
you, but a handshake deal meant that much admit, that much, my father, and the fact that in my gut,
In when, you know, even it even at 5:30 when I would leave the dinner table to go back for my nightly ritual. And I'd go back and I'd write and do these things. Even then in my gut, I always had a hunch that way, the minute you finish this out, you finish it out, there's a light on the other end of this top, those something you're supposed to learn McConaughey. I would tell myself, there's something there's a golden lesson in here and you don't know what it is, but if you stick to it, the less
And will be even more worthy, the longer you pay your Penance. So I saw it as a Penance, I didn't know what the answer was going to be but it the answer was was, was incredible. Like I said, I wouldn't be here now, without that time, I've been it helped me deal with other crisis after that, which I just didn't even give those crisis its credit because they were nothing compared to what I just gone through. So I had callous skin in a way and it helped me. That's when I really began writing in Earnest. That's what I really came to know myself.
Self because I had to rely only on myself for the decisions and what reality was or wasn't. And so, I came at, that's where I got a great identity and so if I wouldn't have had that year, for instance, maybe I would have gone to Hollywood and not been able to take those Walkabout when I needed to find my balance. Maybe I would have not known, hey, you need to go off and be with yourself. You need to go through uncomfortable times with yourself to come out the other side, which always happened for me when I did take those.
Talk about. I did come out the other side shaking hands with myself and going, hey, it's you and you you're the only person, I can't get rid of. So let's dig. I had to get along here. So those trips away on my own after the Australian troops are always about. Let's go figure out Matthew, what we're going to forgive and what we're going to say enough's enough about. And that would first 10 days of those trips on my own, I've always been hell, they were, they were not not, I did not enjoy the company and the company was me
Me until I got on the other side and you know, after about two, usually around a 10, I figure out what I'm going to forgive what, I'm not going to put up with anymore and then we move on and then all of a sudden I'm enjoying my company and I'm having a good time and I'm present again recalibrate,
there's a subtle thing that's happening there that I hope people take away which is you knew that there is something to be extracted from living life. So you know, whether you would agree with the statement that there's power and loneliness, certainly you
Creating situations from which you had the frame of reference. I can extract value from this. How did you get that frame of reference? Like, that's so useful, but I don't think most people have that,
you know, I don't know exactly where where I got I mean, I would say again to call back that Australian year where I did not have a choice where I was forced into that situation and saw the green light assets from being alone and quite lonely. I do think that there's great
Value and being alone. And if we are alone and we get bored and we don't like the company, ding May that light go off to say that does not mean. We need to pick up our phone, to get some attention, or go to the bottle to to ease the anxiety or go online to get some feedback to entertain herself. No, it's actually a great time, say no sit here in that discomfort long enough to go. Okay.
Until you come out the other side to go. Alright, I'm good with me again. Now it's part of that I write about when about traveling in general.
Ideally you don't go to a place. You know. I always say that don't I don't want to leave a place I traveled to until I get to the point of going I could live here, this could be my existence and soon as I get to that point, then I'm like, okay, you go. Now, I can go. That's the same thing in the personal Journeys. Stick with it to you. Get through the just comfortable too. Uncomfortable times until you go. You know what, I can spend time with myself, I could do this. I could do this forever. Well then it's okay to go to re-engage pick up your phone.
Go. See your friends. Go have a drink. What have you go? Look for those things that are other relationships in life, but hopefully not until there's Great Value in. Not doing that until you go. I'm good with me and me for right now.
That's really interesting. Given the context of some of the stories that you tell. So you've got the floating down the Amazon River. So assuming that that falls in that same camp of, I'm going to be here in what is obviously very different than City Life that you'd been used to? I know you travel to to rural Africa. It sounded like
at one point and have a pretty interesting time there. Including a wrestling match, which is a phenomenal story. So when you're there what you're trying to process through is the whatever beef you're having with yourself at that moment, or is it something about a daily life? That involves activity, sweating finding a way without sort of modern conveniences? What what is the Breakthrough? It's
the Breakthrough is
I mean, I didn't I don't go there going. Oh, I'm gonna I got to work something out. It's more about. I'm going to put myself in a place where I'm going to be forced to work something out, and that goes back to that place. You're talking about that's very hard to find. Sometimes we don't know what it is. We're trying to figure out, but can we put ourselves in a place that may be very uncomfortable where you going to go? Well, I'm going to be forced to so I go to a place where no one knows. My name does not have any idea that I'm an actor has never seen. My face has no idea. If I'm famous does not speak the like same language.
Another thing to force you on yourself because you getting a Socratic dialogue because you don't understand what I was talking about and you are then forced to have ascribed, a lock, your forced to put a pen to paper for your own entertainment and you're forced to quiet times where you're sitting there wishing, you could go to sleep because it feels like it's 10 p.m. but it's actually only 5 p.m. and you're like holy shit times moving so slow with this day. Hurry up it's uncomfortable. Oh okay.
10 12 days after that, I'm not enjoying the trip, but I know I have a destination, I have a place that I'm going. That's 22 days away. My flight back is not for another 22 days. So I'm not going anywhere 22 days and I've arrived and say we're on day 10 and I'm going through hell and not enjoying myself. I'm on the move. I do, I do recommend doing these things. When you can break a sweat doing them, don't go lock yourself in a room unless you want to pad the walls and put on a helmet and the chin strap and a mouth guard, you know what I mean?
I mean, take a trip, Mother Nature has a big help. It has been for me to go off and then have a journey. Oh, I gotta each day. I have it's a 14 mile hike to this place. I need to get there. Fatigue can be very good for us and that way and letting relax in our mind and get some things out. And then after the 12 days of not enjoy my company, that's when I usually have some sort of purge wake up and the rest of the trip is just glorious and that's when the lessons start to come.
Um, for me anyway, it's that next 10 days after I've gone through the, the not enjoying my own company. That's when I started, that's when my pins to paper writing, beautiful stuff, truisms. Things that landed things that I'm learning because I'm being very present. But the first 10 or just the stuff I'm writing in is, you know, the who, what, where, when I who, what where when how and wise you know, to all the questions. The the the mental almost paralysis. Well, after that,
Comes on now, I'm seeing Beauty. Now, I'm seeing poetry in life. Now, I'm seeing how my actions Reverb with with life, and it comes back to me in the same way that I gave it out. Then life becomes a dance in a song and that's when the chips are beautiful but only because
I went through the stuck with the early Penance of it.
And when I wish it wish I didn't have to go through that 10 days. I wish you could just be like, okay, I'm here now, it just didn't work that we just never seems to work that way.
And when you talk about Penance, basically there's for whatever reason, for you, for all of us, there's something that's hard that we have to get through, but if we're willing to do that whether it's sweating, whether it's doing the hard emotional work, that there's some reward on the other side of
that, absolutely is Great Value in that we can deny it. I've denied all the time certain things but
Sure many of you I know myself when I keep denying it it comes out of in Chile and usually in a very awkward way it sometimes in a public space where it's like oh man that bubbled over then I just and I regret it. I'm like you should have gone off in dealt with that on your own before you went out and said I can try to keep it at Bay knowing because it's going to come out, it will come out. It will come out. Awkwardly in a relationship, you will take it out on your
significant other a friend you'll take it out on a stranger. It'll come out somewhere in an awkward way in and you were gret it. I know I have.
Do you think that identity is something that were you're doing this, internal work to uncover who you are, or is there a sense of creation?
Uncover or create. That's a great question. Great concept. How much do you uncover? And how much do you create? I mean, I would have to say my first gut feelings at those two are part and parcel.
What you're uncovering. I'm because I mean we all have everything in us, right? We did. We all every human has every
Everything that every other human has in us. Now we have it to different. We have different innate abilities to different extents. Some of us, you know, are born with a higher level of an innate ability than someone else, but everyone else has some version of the abilities that everyone else has. So I think we are uncovering it, but
Let it expose itself but the creating it is what gives the uncovering, some, what we uncover some form because there's there's, there's things that I've uncovered that I may go. Oh wow, that I didn't know you had a talent for that Matthew but I don't pursue it because I'm not going. No. That's I only need in my four Avenues of the four things that I want to follow through on, in my life that really doesn't fit in one, but put that on the side as a little hobby, you know, maybe you'll go to it just remember. Remember that actually, you know what, you're pretty good at conducting.
Being an orchestra but I'm not going to be an orchestral conductor right now, for instance, you know what I mean? So it's created its uncovering within. I think the creation is where do you Channel it? And I know I'm very intentional, I want to channel if we can if we can Channel our in a two-bit, what we do have a great innate ability with what were willing to cultivate work at hustle at read about learn about keep our eyes open every day.
Ooh, the world that's when we can make
And maybe have a career instead of a job, that's when maybe we can do something that makes us look forward to Monday's. Not everybody, I don't believe everybody can do what they love to do if everyone just did what they love to do. We'd have an extremely high unemployment wait, great. You know what I mean? So I have learned to love some things that I didn't like doing. I have I still do things that I don't love to do but I know T me up for more.
Time to do what I love later. So, ideal, I think if you find your own innate ability, and then educate, and work your butt off to to learn more about that. And if you can form that into something, that is a demand, if you can make that something you can supply something to the world that is in demand that maybe the world didn't even know they're demanding it or should then that's the honey
hole.
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/ Theory again, guys. That's netsuite.com Theory, get after it, take care and be legendary. One of the things that I find really inspiring about you and how you move through the world is, is that degree of intention looking for those honey spots. Finding like, when you were sort of burning out on, being the rom-com guy. You went cold turkey on that for 20 months or whatever before the next bout of job.
Offers came in and, and now have really reinvented yourself and obviously stepped into Academy award-winning performances. And that is really extraordinary when you think about creating that in being true to yourself and taking that risk to step into the unknown, how do you conceptualize that? So many people get trapped by Fame. They get trapped by the success and they're never able to reinvent themselves. There's something heart achingly sad about the person whose Prime pass them and
Didn't reinvent themselves. How were you able to do that? Have a whole second set of the highest level of success ever? And which gives me the feeling that, you know, whether it's chasing being the ministry of culture or Whatever, Whenever you decide that you wanted to move on Beyond acting that you would just have a whole nother thing. How did you not get trapped by Fame?
Well.
It was hard.
because,
you know, I
So happy to be have the job. I have is so, so happy to be doing what I get to do. But again, being less impressive more involved. I had to go, wait a minute, this is still very impressive and you can still be very respectful of the situation, you're in Matthew, and you're fluent, and you're, you know, doing rom-coms and you like doing rom-coms and I do and I did, and I was shirtless on the beach. Sounds like, yes. And those ROM comments are paying rent for those houses that I'm running shirtless on the beach.
Yes sir. That is I think you guilty fact at the same time I was like
I'm not don't feel like I'm growing in my work and my life had at that time had become extremely vital meaning. I just had a newborn son with Camilla. Wow, the only thing I ever knew I wanted to be a now I was and here's this job that I have held most reverence for my like fatherhood now I was I was the my emotions the ceiling in the basement of my emotions. The range was so wide, I was laughing, louder, crying harder, getting angry or showing more joy.
Having more sadness have all across the board. All emotions, were much more extreme than they were could be in the work. This is a very compressed, emotional ceiling, and basement, that is sort of inherent to rom-coms. They have to be buoyant, they have to stay within a certain frequency and bounce along the clouds. If you hang your hat on Humanity or get love is hard to get as angry as you might in real life in a rom-com, you can sink that ship in the movies over. You know you don't cut in the wrong. Comment, a couple doesn't make it back if you get
You mad or too happy, you know what I mean? So I said your life's more vital than you work. Okay. Well, if it's got to be one way. The other congratulations path, you could. But can my work challenge? The Vitality. I'm feeling in my life.
So the work I wanted to do, I her certain scripts, I wanted to wanted to do Dallas, Buyers Club at that time. Other scripts, nobody's going to touch me the 10 foot pole in those movies. All the dramatic roles I wanted, they're like no nothing, but God I won't Finance it. Okay, so I can't do what I want to do. So I'm going to stop doing what I've been doing. So, I stopped doing wrong cause I said, no, I stopped both the first six months of not doing. Rom-coms, how was it doing? Anything only thing that came in with rom-coms? I said, no, no, no, finally, nothing.
Man and for 14 more months, nothing came in, I considered other careers.
Enough at ever work again but after 20 months of being gone on branding as a Now, call it being out of sight, not being in your theater or your living room in a rom-com. Not seeing me shirtless on the beach.
I became a new good idea for some of those dramatic roles. Because where's he been? I don't know, I haven't seen him. Where is he been? So I was kind of re found in and looked at in a different way of, you know, it'd be an interesting idea who would have been an interesting idea for Lincoln Lawyer two years ago, but is now McConaughey. So it was a recalibration, but it was a long I'm branding phase. I had to do that.
For myself, I love doing the rom-coms but I was getting the scripts. I felt like I could do the same script tomorrow morning and I was like that's fine but I want something that's going to make me sweat in my boots. I want some work that's going to challenge me. Make me go. I'm scared of this role for all the right reasons and I can't wait to go attack it and see what I come see how I come up the other side. That's what I was looking for and I wasn't getting that in the rom coms. So I stopped doing those and 20 months later, the roles that I wanted to do that. Did make me do those things came to me
now, why do you pursue
Things that scare you. Why seek the role that's hard?
Because it cost me something.
Because it cost comes to the price. It's a bit of that line. Don't pick up. I can't really fight unless you can lose its not really, you know? Don't it's not really a risk unless you lose the fight, I feel more alive in them. I haven't experienced in the making of them. I'm nervous every day I come to work.
I feel like when I nail a day and I knock, and I know I did, I feel. Yes, I guess I have a measure at the end of the day, like, you set out to do something, you prepared, for you had intention and you did it, and maybe even became found some magic in the day that I sleep. Good. Knowing that I accomplished that day in building the architecture of a characters Arc through a story, and then if I could put the whole thing together and it comes out the whole 100 performance turns out to be a beautiful song.
Original song that character then I'm like yes. And I know that I was highly responsible for that I was not solely responsible but the most responsible for that and that gives me pleasure, that gives me gratification, that makes me feel gives me significance, that gives me confidence. If I don't pull it off and I do have a day where I'm like, oh no you didn't ever and it was my fault. I still I would rather with these kind of
Rose. I can look in the mirror and go. So guess who's responsible? Not pulling it off. You kind of hay and the same way when I guess who's responsible pulling up? I like knowing who you. And, and it was also again work that challenged, the Vitality of my life, drop dramatic roles. Allow you the actor to have is high of a ceiling. There's low of a basement from love to hate from happiness, to pain, as that particular actor wants to bring to it.
That's what's inherently beautiful about dramas okay you're the part, you're playing the role. How does how it how is are you going to emulate that person through yourself? That is a vital thing that I feel that makes me sweat. That makes me sleep better at the end of the day. That gives me a sense of accomplishment. I'm like, yes I did what I intended to do. I prepared for it was ready. Oh, the day didn't go out, I thought it was going to go but I called audibles along the way enrolled in still told the truth on my man, the character that gratification feels good.
I love the concept of having to earn your Saturday which you talk about in the book. My favorite story from the book around this theme is when you go to Africa and you get into the wrestling match and they're cheering your name, DOTA. And I wasn't about to your name without a walk us through that story because the punch line to that story is is a life lesson. I think, for all
of us.
There's a few punchlines. I hope I hit the right one. If I don't just follow me
but it's so happily feedback your punchline to you if it doesn't come up.
So I go, this was following literally following one to the third time. I had this very specific dream, that was the third time I had it in over eight years.
The first second time I had it, I went to Peru. In this dream, I was floating down the Amazon River on my back wrapped up in anacondas pythons, piranhas, freshwater, sharks, Etc. And the Left Bank of the river all the way down past the Horizon as line with African tribesmen with Spears and shields.
There's an 11-second dream 11 frames frame frame frame 11. And at the end of it, what those pictures look like, they would be a nightmare.
It was a wet dream, three different times.
So when I have to second time I said, whoa, okay. There's somebody caught. There's a calling here. I gotta follow this. So, I chased down the Amazon, which proof now we get to have it again in 99, and I'm like, oh, geez, I guess. This is telling me to go chase down the second half my dream. Now, what's the only other thing I know in the dream? Geographically African tribes? And so I got to go to Africa. Well, I decided to go. I didn't know where to go to Africa. So I one of my favorite. Musicians was Ali for cat or a and I've been listening to him and I said, oh, where is he from? Nia.
Okay, I get a ticket to bamako hitchhike. Nine hours to mopti, get dropped off. Meet one guy who speaks English finds a guy to haggle over dinner and the next day we're on a boat headed up, the Niger River to go find a lie. We find him, four days later after I find him four days into my trip, I'm like, well, now where we go
I don't know what maybe this is. It was that all of my dream was that was I supposed to see? Well my God Isa. Very wise man says, I believe there's a place that you will you will remember nowadays called the Bunji Garlin. We go to the dogon country, we go up in the boat and we go and we hiked many days to the from Village to Village and each Village you come to we get to the boundary and the chief come and if the chief like what do you see in your eyes? He raised his hand, you give him soft handshake. If you know like what you see in your eyes, we keep
To next Village to hopefully find chief that. Like what do you see in your eyes? Well we go on this trip, it's beautiful. We're hiking 8 to 14 miles a day to these different tribes sleeping on the roof each night. It's beautiful. One day I get to this place called. Did you mop to? It's a beautiful Village and the top of the the mountains there, and it split. There's, there's there's a Muslim third, there's an animus third. And there's a Christian third, and they all live together. Well, I've been hiking all day was a
14 mile hike and I'm laying there like I did when I would arrive from these hikes, I'm stretching on the ground and working at the day's Kinks. And, you know, when I would arrive in Village, I was sort of the village entertainment because my skin was light out of beard. Who's this traveler? So the village tries to gather round kids and middle-aged people. There's about 30 people gathered around and two of these young. Strapping, young African boys are about 19 start kind of a bit Askew. Do whatever. They could to be able to put. Whoo.
Yeah, and I could tell they were challenging me. I look over to East, I said, are they challenged me? He's like, yes, doubted they, they want to wrestle strong white men named aouda, which is the name of went under David, which became data. He was, they say they are the champion wrestlers of the village and they challenged the Ada to wrestling match. Oh, here we go. My heart speaks. I just had to stretch him Sal and all of a sudden that that conversation is gathered. Now about 50 Villages around all of a sudden while I'm stretching looking up at the sky thinking about
This challenge The Village Church screaming, all its high-pitched screaming. I look up the two boys who were challenged me boom, run an opposite way sprinting and all the villagers are laughs and and going on well why are they laughing because guess who steps up where the two boys were right over me.
Michelle.
The real champion of the village wrestler, so the two boys were talking noise saying they were Champions. When actually, this guy is the real Champion. Tree trunk legs burlap bag. Tied around his waist. No shirt. He stands over me points down at me. Points to his chest and point over there.
As a does this, I know that this is a direct challenge, the crowds going crazy as my heart starts beating. I'm going like no effing way in this year. And this year is going. Are you kidding me? You will regret. Not finding out what happened. So I get up stand in front of him point to his chest point to my chest. Look over there and head that way. Now what's, where am I heading? There's a big dirt pit. The Crowd Goes Crazy. Now I've heard come strong, white man data.
And Michelle are going to have a match. We're in the middle of the Ring. I don't know what the rules are. I don't know if there's hitting. I don't know if there's biting I don't know it just seemed to be no weapon so that's good and but he reaches down, he grabs my waist Loos turning. Looks at me to like Miriam. I grabbed him by that waist. He puts his other arm down. So he told me by the waist with two hands and I'm holding him, by the way, to her face-to-face. Then he lowers his forehead and digs it into my collar bone right here, this clavicle right here, digs it in. I do the same. So now we're ear to ear.
Holding each other's waist and we're moving down into this position like two bulls in the middle of this dirt pit. The chief comes over puts hands on both our heads and go. Stop Crowd Goes Crazy. I realized that thought means ding ding and we get going and
He takes me down, I flip them over my back, I get up, take him down, we go around and around, I get slammed I slam him. He gets me to a leglock. I almost Lose My Breath and blackout. I come out of it, get him in a headlock. All of a sudden the chief comes in, splits us up. It's been about I'd probably felt like 30 minutes probably only been like two doing that. We stand up, I'm pouring sweat hyperventilating. I had had these talismans that are so to my beard at the time, two of them are ripped out. So I've got blood running down my
Neck and chest, my knees are bleeding, my ankles are bleeding. And again, I'm huffing and puffing. Nobody, I was in pretty damn good shape for this time. I just come off this film rain of fire so I was in pretty good shape but still Michelle is like tree trunk legs and it's just as sturdy Rock. I look at him not to be this way, maybe just to glisten this way but he's not happy. The crowd is very happy for some reason he's not happy. He just Stone face looking at me while I'm gone. All of a sudden the chief goes good.
Round two ways to waste head down the clavicle. Here we go. Crowds going ape shit. Here we go. Bam ding ding we go around again. Same things going I catapult them over my head. He comes down I come in. He leglocks me again. We go from headlocks, I get him in a Boston crab. He flipped me over all of a sudden, Chief comes in breaks. Us out raises. Both our hands. The crowd is dizzying now frantically screaming. Wow, Michelle
Runs away.
Now it's just me the crowd starts going Dowd daud daud and I'm just engulfed by about a hundred of the villagers. Well, I go on that night, very happy with my day that I accepted the challenge and wow, I think I did pretty good, you know. I mean it I sleep that night I think I've kind of crossed a cradle of Truth. You know, I see
that that the
northern cross for the first time in the Stars,
This guy wasn't looking for it, it revealed itself, lay there awake, Saul 29, shooting stars, one of those moments where I really felt like Tada. I'm in the Cradle of
Truth. This is it. I'm really
on it which maybe I was. But as I'm thinking this and feeling so good about myself, really feel like I am now in tune with the one
Divine one,
I'm laying there on top, because I'm about to go to sleep that night feeling so good about myself, so high
Out myself.
And I goes like a gloops. My nose blocks up, as I'm just about to go to sleep and I had some mucus in my
No, so I stood up, hock up a big, loogie for a better word and go to launch it off the roof.
I forgot that I had mosquito net on.
So the loogie goes whoop and just splatters across my face like an oyster. And I remember just starting to Hal and
laughter because I was just in the moment where I was feeling
like I'm here, the chosen one that's been a loogie in my own face. So touche. Anyway, the next morning we get up to leave and as we get to the edge of the boundary to that,
Village on the way to our next eleven. My heart to the next Village. Guess who's waiting for me?
Michelle.
Does it say a word looks me in the eye and as I crossed the boundary to go, he looks at me, walks up, grabs my hand holds my hand and walked with me. The 11 miles to the next Village. We didn't say a word get to the next Village soon, as I got to the boundary met, the chief got left in, he gave a slight bow turned around and walked back home. I go to esa' that night. My guide. He's let's talk about last night, the wrestling match. I mean, I think I
did pretty good. He's like
oh no doubt a you do Betty. Betty, good better better, everybody.
That we shelled contact strong white man named data on his back in 10 seconds. You did very very good. I said y'all good. Yeah. Great. Because I got was, I went to chill. So chanting my name and he was like, you big man in this Village not because you handled the shell. But mainly because you accept the challenge when you accept the challenge, you big man in this Village but you also very good wrestler powder. I said yeah, why? Yeah, I wrestled. My two older brothers. He goes, you know, Michelle
He's not only champion this Village Michelle has championed this Village and Tree Village back Champion wrestler. I said, oh really yes. Yes. Now do you come back, we make money.
And I went back there. Unannounced, six years later.
Michelle, it had four kids.
Busted hip.
No wrestling match.
Six years later, the next morning after Benjamin to, when I left to go hike to the next Village, 11 miles away. Guess who was again waiting for me at the boundary who held my hand and walked me the 11 miles without saying a word to the next Village bowed and walk back Michelle.
Yeah, I love that story because it's about accepting the challenge, right? So win or lose. It's like that Rocky moment. Just going the distance that is
It matters and you know, looking at your life and the way that you've navigated it, it's it's and you really have to read the book to get how many times over and over and over. You do this, you know, nothing in your life was self-evident or obvious. Not like you came from a wealthy family or a Hollywood family, you know? I mean it was it was the sort of Scrappy way that you get the job in the bar in the first place. And then obviously, earned the respect of people. So they introduce you to this guy. But then you, you know, you know who you are, at least at that.
That moment in your life and so there's that effortlessness the charm to get it but then always accepting the the what if and the big what-if of not taking the work? It could have ended. Mm. You said you actually seriously consider going back and teaching fourth grade or becoming a high school football coach. And so when people think about Matthew McConaughey, oh yeah, I remember he used to act but now he's fourth, grade teacher it for you to step into that space. But, like, I didn't need to leave that space because I
Okay, being the high school teacher or the fourth grade teacher. I didn't need to leave, you know, the wrestling match because I was okay, losing the wrestling match, right? It's just like accepting, those challenges is why you've survived for so long in a business that eats people have faster than the NFL.
Well, how many times do we think is our first thought?
Oh well if I did that, if I became the 4th grade teacher, that would be a demotion or ad motive move in my life.
No wouldn't have been? It would not have been. I'm glad I didn't have to do it now in hindsight but that would not have been a demotion. I would have
Found certain value.
That was going to fill my soul in that role and that role that I was not finding doing the work I was doing in Hollywood so it would not have been a demotion. It may have been perceived as one but IE look, I've got and I've Got Friends and trust me, I've done it myself, you know, that lose a job and then get another, but won't take it because it's less salary than maybe the one they had before.
And all of a sudden, find themselves, three, four, five, six, seven, eight years, a decade. Later going. They're still stuck, they didn't do anything. They're still saying like, no, I'm going to find that thing and I'm going, you missed a decade man. Just go do that one that you love to do that. Maybe was going to pay you less, because you'd at least been building something through the day and who knows what that would have led to. Maybe that would have led to something where you get paid five times more than you were doing something else, you love even more. So a lot of times I say this in the
Sometimes it's not even about what choice. We make. Just make a choice in commit to it and go and dive in, because we can look up limbo sucks. We're all in limbo now with covid. Limbo sucks but sometimes just go. I don't know what to do. Just gonna do this one. I'm just going to do it. If I do this to the best of my ability sometimes that lends somebody sees us do that and they come up and they go, you're actually more qualified, you're overqualified for this job, you should be doing that. You like yeah, that's what I really like to do. They'll see it but put ourselves in a position.
Russian rap because you can look up and days weeks, months years can go by, and you can go. I've been tiptoeing around here, not committing to anything for so, damn long, I'm
missing out.
Hey, you talk about us being in limbo right now, and I know your obsession is values values in your own life values to pass on to your kids values for us as a society to take away and you gave a commencement speech at your alma mater that I thought was awesome and it felt a bit like a dry run for the book. Because so many of the themes carrier two green lights but man, really, really truly. First of all, the book is amazing. And I really mean that the commencement speech was amazing. Some of the
A values that you talked on, I think are so powerful, especially right now. The world isn't fair. It's never going to be life isn't easy. Don't want it to be, which I thought was really interesting. You're gonna have to earn your way forward and that we should want it that way. What are some values, whether those or others that you think people will get more out of their own life. If they embrace
That there's a responsibility to freedom and that there is freedom in responsibility.
You know, in that earn your way there.
We remember the stuff we learn the stuff we experienced, more than what the teacher tells us or what someone gives us for free. We just do. We broke a proverbial, sweat on it, whether it's mental or physical. Whatever. We built it. We, we understand, we felt how we got it. How we achieved it, how we got, what we wanted those stick with us, whether we forget them intellectually. They were written in our lineage and they build resilience and they, and they build a healthy. True optimism going forward to know that, oh, no, I've
For something for and achieved it delayed gratification, oh, their choices. I can make today for myself. That will pay me back later in life, mailbox money. As we call it entertainment industry Roi, there are specific personal choices we can make, and they're worth considering, look, I'm all for Hedonism. I'm all for immediate gratification to sometimes. It's like, yes dude, it's Halloween, eat all the candy, one, go for it. It's not going to become a habit day-to-day. There's certain nights real like, hey guys, tonight we're going to blow
It out the walls are padded and we got nothing we're off. Work on Monday, let's go. You know, I mean, certain times to say that's okay but
There's you know, where is the selfish choice? This, the selfless choice. Where is what we want, actually, what we need, whereas what we need actually, what we want, where is the best choice for me, the best choice for. We where's the best choice for? We, the best choice for me. That's the place. I believe the hunt talk about, honey holes. That's the real place to go forward in. Trying to find T ourselves up for those green lights in the future. And although, and I mean the simple.
Let me break it down to really simple.
You drink coffee. I do.
Do you prepare your coffee? Put it in the filter and pour the water in the coffee maker the night before.
Not for myself. But ironically I do for my
wife because you're teeing her up for what
A green light the next morning for us, so she doesn't have to come in and go. Where's that filtered? She can just come in and go press the button. You're giving her a gift to her future self. You're making something easier for her. It's a very simple thing but it's a great little simple metaphor, so there are choices we make. If you're going to say right now, I'm going to lie cheat and steal to get what I want and I got it. I got an immediate green light for me.
That's a battery-powered dreamlike. That's not a solar powered green light. Why?
Because now everywhere I go, I got to look over my shoulder to see if someone's there that I lied cheated stole from. And I'm doing that, I'm stealing who's time my time now. I'm not Freedom. I'm not free. I don't have the freedom. I didn't create freedom in my future because I chose to be a tea making irresponsible act that I left crumbs.
I've now got reasons to look over my shoulder and the more things we do to create in our in our future that we got to look over our shoulder. The more of our most precious thing we have in our lives time that were stealing from ourselves. So it's not puritanical. It's just like sits actually self-serve. It's a very selfish choice and and I'm a fan of the word selfish. I've read it helped redefine it, but I believe that there are selfish choices. We can make that are the most selfless that there are selfless choices that we can make that
The most selfish choices those two are not a contradiction and we see them that way responsibility of freedom and the freedom in responsibility life's more than just straight Saturdays with as much cake. As you want to eat just is it will see how long you last doing that if you really do it you won't last that long there. We responsibility is appreciation of a past, its building of a lineage. It's investing in ourselves. It's investing in something. We start to build yesterday that we want to take into tomorrow.
There's a response that gives us freedom. So to actually have true Freedom, we have to take certain, we have to be responsible, more responsible, for certain things for ourselves who we are constantly investigating and interrogating. Our better selves to say I'm going to be a little bit better at this tomorrow knowing that we never land and never we never there's no there's no table moment and that is one thing. I think we all got to watch because we all are so result-oriented. So if I keep doing this I'm going to get to that place.
Pure Enlightenment. I'm going to go Tada bullshit. You don't can it be a small Ascension of evolution? Yes.
But there's no Tada moment, we're always chasing yet and if we can get comfortable and understand and laugh at and be ready to work hard, the fact that we're all just if we could just say we're all just achieving our way to the unachievable and that's as good
as it gets. And that's pretty damn
awesome. That's the honey hole. It's third time. I've said that Miss talk but however
I love that man. Would you say that your book contains the
The bulk of the wisdom that you'd want to pass on to your kids. Or is there a key concept that didn't make the book that you're trying to instill in
them?
It's definitely in the book. It's not in the book in a form that my kids 12, 10, and 7 need to digest it right now because there's just the way the true stories would raise too many questions where they may miss the, the actual, you know, moral of the story, you know, my parents. Instilled the first four times I got in trouble and in my family grow up is kid. Our version of get in trouble with getting a whuppin, right? Was for not answering to my name. For saying, I
It.
and for saying, I hate you too my brother and for lying
there were values instilled and those poor things.
those were words that hurt not the whooping I got, but if you fight a gone through life,
Answer. No, whatever name.
Lying thinking, I can't do stuff instead of feeling like I was having trouble and hating.
That would hurt me, that would have hurt me in my future life, I would not be who I am. I would that would be those will be a hurtful way for me to go on living life to grow into a human. And I think that can apply for for everybody. It's something we try to steal in our children. I remember this great story, my dad after I'd already learned the lesson of don't say can't but forgot the lesson I was doing my going up to do my chores when Saturday morning part of those were mow, the yard weed eater crank the law more three times, four times five times five to put on choke. Well I
It won't start. I go inside and go - I can't kick. Start the lawnmower. He goes, I saw his molars me. Mmm! Oh, and I knew right? When I said I said that bad word
Can't he didn't say a word. He got up slowly walked out of the bedroom through the kitchen. Now the garage around to the back shed with a bomb or was pulled a few times, it didn't start, he leaned down, got a screwdriver, took something off, fix the gas leak, where he got the the to hook back up. So it was getting gas often he cranks and it's running and he walked over to me. He looked at me, he kind of leaned down on hands on his front of his knees. Look, me in the eye and ghost. You see
son.
You just having trouble.
Beautiful is Right. Sometimes, you know, we can't do it ourselves. We have trouble that we can seek help, someone else can help us do that. So we try to instill in our children, that same thing, no, no, no, don't say can't, they don't, they're not a hundred percent perfect at it, but we're trying to them and help them understand why can't and hate or actually.
Bad or words, then shit, fuck down. You know what I mean? They're not good for you. They're not good for your future. They don't. They'll if you live a hating and feel like you can't do stuff
Or lion, you're not going to create green lights in your future for
yourself.
I love them ants, perfect, perfect place to tap out guys. If you haven't already go, get the books called the green lights. It is phenomenal. I highly recommend the audio version. He is amazing and doing all the different voices and stuff, you guys will love it. Matthew, thank you so much for joining me and everybody if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friend's be legendary, take care.
