So today I have a guest returning to the hot seat here on the 20-minute VCR. First episode was recorded over four years ago and so much has changed since then and so with that I'm thrilled to welcome back to the horsey Towing McCabe a technology entrepreneur who has started a number of companies the most notable of which intercom the conversational relationship platform. He was CEO of intercom for nearly 10 years during which he grew the company to hundreds of millions of dollars in Revenue nearly 700 employees from raised nearly 250 million dollars from the lights of Kleiner Perkins index Bessemer and
A iconic he's also invested in dozens of companies including stripe figma superhuman and coda in the summer of 2020. He moved to the role of chairman of intercom. And I do also want to say a huge. Thank you to anicon at CRV Abhijit zero down here and lie it in Tacoma Moon declining from providing some fantastic questions suggestions today. I really do so appreciate that before we move into the show stay. I want to take a moment to mention hellosign a great example of a company that found success in building a product focused on user experience hellosign is an effortless e-signature.
Lucien he's by millions to securely sand and request legally valid digital signatures and agreements. They raised a total of 16 million dollars in funding and recently got acquired by Dropbox for an impressive 230 million dollars check out. Hello sign.com /to zero VC to join the thousands of companies and Founders who value fast secure and simple e-signatures and if hellosign helps you sign that term sheet you need to get the term sheet in the first place and I want to give a mansion to Draper Esprit a publicly listed VC fund that invests in
In high-growth European tech companies with global Ambitions their portfolio includes companies, like revolute uipath kazoo graph core and many other top European companies Draper is pre writes checks of USD five to fifty million dollars focusing on sectors like consumer fintech health Tech deep Tech Enterprise and Sass and their investment team has an incredible depth of experience both is operators and investors that helps businesses scale. Globally. It sounds like the sort of investor you want to work with get in touch with them at Draper Esprit.com.
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t or a PE on ESP, alright e.com and last but by no means least if you don't have a sock to report you aren't going to be able to sell two major customers secure frame help startups get and maintain sock to and ISO 27001 compliance in as little as two weeks join companies, like stream has Surah Banner pass and unlock more sales with secure frame 20 VC listeners get temps and off at secure frame.com /to zero VC. That's secure frame.com.
4/2 zero VC, but that is enough of my dulcet tones. So now I'm very excited to hand over to own McCabe chairman and intercom.
You have now arrived at your destination. Oh and it is such a joy to have you on the show again. It's been a very very busy few years since we lost on the show. But thank you so much for joining me again today. Yeah, my pleasure a lot going on for you and me both we discussed your a VC now. Congratulations. Thank you so much pipe assembly a little bit busier, but I do want to kick off with some contacts. And so for those that missed our first episode how did you make your way from Ireland into the world of startups and come to found one of The Valleys greats in the last decade with intercom story like so many others young boy has Big Dreams chip on his shoulder. It sets out to
Himself don't know if there's a lot more to it than that. I was always passionate about building and creating and so excited about the promise of the internet for creativity and connection and commerce and with intercom. I saw an opportunity to help online businesses just more easily and effectively connect to their customers and have a lot more fun doing it too. So those for the intercom was all about originally instead of today. Our mission was to make internet business personal and we made this little messenger and then Bots that let these online companies and their customers really get to know each other and get their work done and I have a big chip on my shoulder and it kind of with every stage I think.
Think it will go away. You know, I mean, it's like I was wanting to be a VC and I thought I'll lose the chip on the shoulder when I become a VC and then I'll lose the chip on my shoulder when I have my own fun and with every stage the chip just moves further and further. And so now it's like I'm not a good enough board member named really feel that kind of chip. Would you say you still have a chip on your shoulder today? And how do you think about kind of the relationship with that chip on the shoulder? It's a really good question. What do we mean by chip on your shoulder? It means you think there's something lacking in you. It's a lack of self-love. It's a sense that you're not good enough and that you need to possess or achieve something to be
Lovable or popular or safe or whatever it is often a product of our nurture and conditioning the environment we grew up in the experiences. We had one thing we do to medicate that as we try and attain these external things. I don't know. Is it money or status or achieve something to prove yourself and the lesson the trite and cliché lesson is that we find out that that's not what we needed at all that everything we needed was within us the you kind of have to go that Journey kind of have to prove yourself wrong before you can do the harder work and so yes.
As for me, I haven't built a super successful business billion dollar company hundreds of millions in Revenue. Help me feel good. But whenever a little lacking thing is there on the inside the still present and really what it's taken for me to chip away at that as it were is actually to do the hard work the internal work the going that inward Journey. Sometimes it's a spiritual journey to really get to know what you need and develop that love and respect and appreciation for who you are. So this is getting totally off scheduling. She thought I think the challenge for me is like I want to embrace that inward journey and I want
To embrace that spiritual journey. I think the truth is I've cut him so lost myself in the pursuit of what I'm doing. And in that she's continuous. You said before the show about two thousand seven hundred episodes acid pure grind five years. They're kind of you look into the best and you kind of don't know what's looking back at you. Think about that kind of spiritual journey in that inward search when maybe you've kind of lost yourself a little bit. Well, how are you baby still you're still in act one of your own journey. And so you've got 90 fun years to go to lose.
Yourself and realize that that's not going to make you whatever it is. You want to be happy whole we talked about losing yourself at such an interesting way to put it what happens is that we create these ego identities these little images and ideals for who we want to be your usually built off. I mean, they're always built off things. We see in the world were inspired by Heroes and icons. We see other people doing some certain things and we imagine with ourselves that they have what we want to need. That's an example of losing yourself. That's why I love the way you phrase that you lose yourself because really you're modeling your life and identity after.
Mouse something else. The next stage is to realize that that's not the answer. Then you must go on a journey to ask yourself. Who am I you need to find yourself all over again, or maybe you need to discover yourself for the first time. Who was it that said that man has two lives one that starts the day he's born and the other that starts the day he gets to learn his purpose. And so that moment getting to know you and your purpose your mission your place in the world. That won't come from the process of losing yourself will be the opposite thing. It'll be the looking inward we can talk about that if you wish but it's a very different Journey than trying to build status and career.
And find external validation and retain material things Etc. Because in terms of like belonging a sense of belonging, I think so many challenges come from being so attached in terms of identity to your business. The 20-minute VC is entirely me. It's been my whole adult life that you kindly suggested about my youth but like for you especially you know, you were CEO of income for many years and then making the transition to Chairman today. Obviously, you're not as operationally involved as you are a CEO daily daily grinding 24 hours a day. Was there a change for you and kind of detaching your identity from
One company, of course, if these identities do we build for ourselves this armor these images there are place of comfort and safety and we latch onto them they're everything to us. We've worked so hard because we believe that they are the thing we need that they are us we believe it so strongly that we will answer questions by saying things like Oh, I'm a Founder. I'm a tech guy. I am a VC and you're not you're so much more than that. You're hairy. And that's a big risk in a big danger. Just getting stuck onto and its associated with these.
Has that damn become limiting. Imagine what else you could do with your life. I'm not hating on VC. I think you're going to make it wonderful venture capitalist. And I think you're gonna have a lot of fun doing it too. But you can also do so many more things. You are so much more than that. There have been so many feces in the world. What else could you become maybe you can becomes truly your own thing. Maybe you can become something truly unique but if for the rest of your life or for as long as you say I am VC and that's all you're going to be. So for me, absolutely. Yes, when I thought I was a CEO I was
Stopped by that even though I knew I had so many more things. I wanted to do with my life and ways. I want to invest my energy and different missions and Adventures and I had known that for years. It was a long process to be able to share that outer protective layer and kind of look that fragile ego in the face and say you've been a great CEO but you're more than just a CEO so it's scary but it's so rewarding because I think in terms of that title of CEO and Nina, it comes with this real weight of expectation and then especially with every subsequent funding round and the more and more millions that are poured into the company and the big
it grows quite frankly to be thing that I always find is like the way your expectation I placed on myself is incredibly high and then also bluntly that I think a lot of people break time me and placed on me, which I'm very grateful for but there's just this real weight of expectation. I feel on how did you deal with the weight of expectation on your back? Probably the short pithy answer is not very well. I took a little bit of an arrogant approach to this. In fact and I saw those who invested in us, we're fortunate to have the opportunity of our hard work and labor and creativity and I kind of think that that doesn't mean that I'm not really grateful for the big bets that people have
Darkness and some of my bigger bets and others especially the early stage folks, but there is a lot of money out there in the world, but there's only a very limited supply of creative unique humans who are going to sacrifice their one short life and their youth and so much other opportunity on behalf of that money. So I didn't really feel expectation and that respect I felt expectation from myself. We talked about that chip on your shoulder. Anyone was chip on his shoulder, which is essentially for me is every entrepreneur eyes met. Like I said that ship comes from an inherent belief that they are not enough.
Enough, they are not whole or valid without this thing. They're not lovable people will not like them or whatever it is. And that is so easy. Think about that belief. I am not enough think about that belief that carries so much strength and power and pervades your every breath that can't compare it to whatever expectations that some financier might have for some celebrity of their multiple phones. That was the hardest part for me personally. It has a lot of what we're discussing. It's a thing I love about it is it's a it's truth and it's kind of fun.
Well, as you know, I think there's so much kind of chest pounding and chest beating in this industry that really I just can't quite tired of I think the pressure of me is when we think about this vulnerability with its relationship to leadership. How do you think about the balance of kind of real leadership and then pandering to employees and being that kind of champion at all times was the right balance? Well, there's many different things in that I don't think about this in terms balance and pretty absolute on this point. I think that real leadership equates to a deep connection with your purpose and your values and any deviation from that makes
For a bad leader and for leadership, I understand leaders today. They're in a precarious position. When really you're very talented employees can work anywhere the temptation to say what they want you to say and give them what they want is very real but it's not sustainable. It's not enduring and it's a slippery slope and see a lot of leaders today, especially in this age of extreme social activism. There's a lot of pain out there in the world and a lot of beautiful ideas from people who want to help and stop that pain, but it results in
Is standing up for causes that everyone knows they care nothing about they've never spoken on the topic about before they've never acted in any way that might demonstrate that they have even thought about these issues and now all of a sudden it's so so important to them. It's just so toxic to your position as a leader. It loses them so much trust and respect and does no favors to the causes either whatever the cause may be if there's an issue you care about roll your sleeves up and do something about it not just Tweeting or saying things.
Things your employees that you think they want to hear if you care about a topic do something about it. If you don't be real also and for sure you'll upset some individuals and they may leave and go to companies that better represent their views and values but there will be so many more who will deeply respect you for being real and authentic and vulnerable and the trust that you can build from doing so is priceless so it's a sticky topic for sure, but I think anything but doing so is pondering and is not real leadership. I totally agree with you in terms of
Standing up for what you believe in and being direct with it. I think the challenge that I have. It's like everyone has stakeholders that they how down to and Kiss the Ring to and certain respect it be your VCS. It could be a board members for me. It's LPS and Founders and that very much holds me back. I mean, I guess the question is like to what extent you then think about the balance between being true to yourself and coming out with the what you actually believe where I have certainly very strong beliefs on things are actually I don't say any of them because I'm concerned about how LP's perceive it and how other VCS perceive it. How do you think about that balance?
And some kind of being cuckolded into not saying something because of stakeholders. It's in your servant done. My co-founder does used to say discretion is the greater part of valor. There's a long time ago in a different context and I think more broadly that refers to choosing your battles and I think that there is skill and choosing your battles just because you disagree with the certain topic or you have an opinion does not mean that you need to wait in on it and let the world know that doesn't mean that you have to and the world doesn't deserve that of you and quite frankly without that discretion. You can just cause a lot of trouble for yourself do
That does not mean you're being inauthentic to you. It just means you're setting your priorities straight. But therein lies the real challenge for those who are values-driven and you have strong ideals and I think that deciding when to speak and when to not speak is very different from kissing the rain and I would say that you will be most respected when you speak the truth to your stakeholders, whoever they are. Even when the truth is somewhat difficult to the only way to build real trust and respect and they'll appreciate you so much more for it in any professional climate.
It's and Society their hands to be a lot of transactional behavior and people aren't as authentic as you might wish and so there's ass kissing and rank hissing and whatnot. But everyone knows the difference between that and authenticity in the small number of people who are able to skillfully in a climbing wasn't loving way in a respectful fashion really be true to them. They are the standard individuals that those stakeholders want to be around and fed on and invest in so it's the next Frontier. It's the next step up a lot of people Pride themselves in
Ability to kiss the ring and they think that they're great skill and being able to make everyone like them as a tremendous benefit to them. But the degree to which they're truly liked is actually relatively shallow in the people who are really beloved are not those who kiss the ring, but those who are themselves that again, that's the next challenge. That's the next Frontier and it feels good and delivers great benefits. It makes me think of something you've actually said before which is about going to question the rules of the game there in terms of kind of sticking true to your beliefs versus maybe a conventional narrative. The question that I have. Is that how do you think about questioning the rules of the game?
I'm went to do it if there are rules and how you think about that. Yeah. I mean, I don't believe that there are any rules and work on life. I have always taken a healthy approach to any Endeavor where I tried question all your assumptions horror. That is my own nature in that there's a part of me that wants to be a troublemaker and a contrarian that maybe the part that has a chip on his shoulder. But regardless Annie Endeavor I face into I ask how can we do things differently here and it's the different and it's the new and unique that gets all the attention. It's where the value floods to it's what the talent wants to be around.
At the money wants to invest in the mainstream and the masses the top of the bell curve that's old news. The leading cutting-edge things that are different that's where the real magic happens nations are changed and culture and Trends are set. So for me and my story a lot of the things that we're weird and novel at the time are now pretty mainstream silly little things. Like when I was raising our seed round in 2011. I was told and all the way into 2013 actually when I was raising our series a I was told you cannot build a hundred million dollar software business selling to SMB.
Can't do it. You can't reach these people. They won't pay enough. They won't retain matter of fact. I was told by really smart people who were way more experienced and I it seemed a lot more intelligent than I thought I was and I found their arguments convincing But ultimately not convincing enough for them to change my mind and it just turned out to not be true. We build a hundred million dollar business with SMB anyone who was an SMB was really just slightly larger and it was really no Enterprise customers there and there are very few today. And so did so many others MailChimp is another great example, Java fi wonderful example, I mean, there's dozens now, so that was just an example.
Couple of the kind of a well-regarded rule that you cannot build a hundred million dollar business selling to small companies. It was there's the fact I was just told Time and Time Again by VCS. Sorry, but here's the facts and I didn't like that fine and it didn't feel right to me and I didn't want to go that way and I think that there was a little Fu piece of me that's like I'm actually going to show you wrong and I'm going to really enjoy it. So that's just one tiny example, and it's not very interesting now because we all know that it's true that you can build multi-billion dollar businesses are too small companies. We know that now so I'm just a big advocate for just questioning everything and that
Obviously is a big strategic one but this like little facets little things are in the edges how you employ people and work together and all of it question everything for me. I find it just so much more fun rip up the rules surprise people the degree to which you can Inspire and ignite imagination and make people so proud to be part of a company that is different is quite shocking quite shocking. We hired some of the best people in the industry. I think a big part of that was that after interviewing all the other great companies out there. We were the weirdos and they wanted that they wanted to be part of something different. It just was more
I
think it would keep them awake and come into the office on time in the morning. So I don't know I'm the biggest advocate for just ripping open ignoring and Breaking All the Rules as much as you can when you have a culture that is as questioning. Everything is encouraging of descent. Does that not actually slow down processes make for inefficiency too much time debating and a lack of execution. How do you think about the balance between extreme execution and being very ruthless in terms of meeting goals and targets but also having that plastic mindset that does question everything and they not kind of paradoxical maybe on the face of it. I think.
Kenny intercom employees listening to this will know that there's a difference between my Hyperbole and the fact on the ground which is that we question everything but we have structure and rigor and process and this doesn't mean as much as I advocate ripping up as much things as possible doesn't mean Reinventing the wheel you need to know what components actually matter what our strategic what will make a difference. What will Define you there's just so much work that you need to do that actually will not define you so knowing the difference is actually the Fine Art of creativity and business building, but all that to say
Strategic components of our business we try to do many different things and we try to break the rules. But at the same time we had phenomenal structure in the business and have today at levels that we didn't even see a couple years ago. There are very structured goals and hierarchies and aggressive targets and kpis and your homes and execution machine and so I wouldn't want to suggest that I'm advocating for kind of a key and Madness I believe in anything but for your strategic leaders in the people who actually are going to decide how to make a difference in the world are the ones that we really need to think outside the box careless I do love
That I think we're kind of relatively similar minds in cyberspace and I honestly just I'm freaking hate process and my name is on a kills me because you know, I never log any no, I don't take notes and map them into me. I mean fuck all that. So I chose their like I suck with process, but I'm great at zero to one. So getting it all done great and then we get to a size and I'm like I prefer the creative burst we say it is is that the same as you and you enjoy that scaling into process? I don't know if I have a simple announcer. I think there's a lot that's similar between
You and I
I do get pretty tired of minutiae of process. That's not my forte that said it can be super fun to be creative on a big scale when you have hundreds of Engineers and teams brilliant designers and marketers at your disposal ripping up the rules with that weight behind you. It can be thrilling the art again is to weave the creativity and innovation in with the process and for me what that looked like was partnering with our CEO. Oh Karen who we made CEO this year.
And Karen was able to help deliver of stanshall amount of process around our creativity. So I don't have any smart answers there for how you do that well, but to answer your actual question, I think we're quite similar and yet the one thing I'll say is that it can be really fun to be crazy at scale to yeah. I totally see that in the I think you would probably just multiply that good looking and younger looking that's the only difference that I do have one final thing that I have started here on before the quickfire its Vision. So I think Vision we will save our vision advantages like oh, I want to hear the founders vision.
And then oh, isn't that wonderful how big they're thinking I think vision is actually one of the most dangerous things you can have in certain respects because I had a vision my vision was to be an associate at bulletin capital in London and I'm probably gonna have to edit this out because they get very very derogatory. But that was like the angle for me five years ago. I started late now, I would never have expected to be where I am in my vision and if I had been so constrained my vision it would have just asked you restrained me. Actually, how do you think about the benefits of vision and you don't think that it can actually constrain you would you in Ireland as
Her of thought when you started we're going to be one of the Valley's biggest companies and we're gonna be worth multi-billions of dollars. She sure what I mean. Yes, I mean Vision happens whether you like it or not vision is just how you think about the future. We give it a grander name like a vision because nor industry were all about achieving big great daysius bold and no less than world-changing things. But Vision comes in all shapes and sizes. I think what you're really getting at is that our potential for accomplishment is massively determined by a scale of our thinking and that was a big lesson for me. I'm pretty sure that all other things being equal.
Cool, if I was able to go back in time and starting to calm Again by this stage of probably will beat an exercise only because I now know that I can think bigger and that's simply doing so gives you just so many more benefits. You take bigger bites out of the apples as you go along. You don't limit yourself. You don't hold back in the face of fear. You tell a larger story to bring in more talented people and point them in a bigger Direction like one of the things I've been saying recently and I think it's true, but I kind of need to put my money where my mouth is if I really want to be able to say this, but I think that building a I'll just make this up if we're going
To use this criteria building a 50 billion dollar company. I don't think it's substantially harder than building a 1 billion dollar company quite frankly within say some sort of similar timelines are really think that for talented smart people ambition. And the size of your vision is the key determining factor in anyone who's built much larger business than I like to say that that's a bunch of bullshit, but I'm just not convinced by that. I think it's shocking the degree to which our ambition and our vision determines. How come you need to take that Vision journey to find out you need to start taking small bites and
Once
you realize that you could have taken one bigger and you stumble your way through it. I think sometimes our arrogance goes a long way as long as it doesn't get you in trouble. A lot of people have done things like me. They have some internal confidence that actually didn't have a right to have and hopefully the self-awareness they build over the years will take the rough edges off that and the arrogance will go but they're essential internal belief can stay so it's a very very long answer to your question and all I'm really trying to say is that the scale of your thinking is everything just think bigger bigger bigger bigger. Most people I come across
even the greatest companies. I've had the pleasure of investing in I think they're still thinking too small. So I've got to ask is something that me and one of my closest friends is also another VC. Thanks a lot. It's like when is just too big like when it's like actually real peas are going to look at the Fun Size and go fuck off my not happening voice. When is that balance between audacious ambitious great and like well guys too much too soon. The answer is in the outcome those who have a big Ambitions and pulled it off. Well, it turns out that they weren't thinking to a big those that didn't
They where I don't think there's any answer but I don't think the scale of their ambition was the problem. I think it was their ability to meet that and to execute and here's the deal. I've never come across someone who I felt they were thinking too big who I also thought could execute really really well at a tenth of that scale. Usually people I think are thinking too big. I just don't think they're a good fit for business or for entrepreneurship or for whatever Endeavor. They were embarking upon it was the wrong thing for them. They'd be brilliant at something else, but the very fact that they were
Seeing in their narrative. I think it's just more indicative of the fact that they're just disconnected from reality. Does that make any sense? It's not that anyone thinks too big. It's that some people think wrong. But what I'm saying is within the Spectrum and scope of people who are smart and capable and creative and will make great entrepreneurs or creatives within the scope of those very fortunate lucky people. They tend to still think too small. No, I think I totally understand what you're saying and I agree with you in terms of kind of the binary nurse of the outcome, which is like it's all exactly I do.
To
move into my favorite their own which is a quick fire round. So I say a short statement and as you remember you give me your immediate thoughts about 60 seconds. Are you ready to rock and roll? Let's do it. I really need to read more info been quarantined. What's the favorite book and why I don't have a favorite book at all, but I'll tell you what I'm reading right now. It's called breathe and it will convince you that you have been breathing wrong your whole life, huh? That's enjoyable to read. Yeah. I've already changed the way I breathe and it actually has a big impact so I can't say more if we're going to make this a quick fire.
Around but please read the book breathe done. I will absolutely tell me what would you most like to change about the value Tech scene? I think just a little more love and a little less judgment a little more open mindedness would go a long way if you are a cocktail, what color would you be alone? It's a bit basic. I like Mezcal margaritas and I think that works for me because it's kind of approachable to everyone. It's got something for everyone but it's also got a little twist with the Mezcal it's a little off-center. It's a little weird. So I'll give you missed call Margarita. I like that. That's a good one. And I love them both cows that good choice. Tell me. Why do you love?
The Snapchat vending machine marketing campaign so much. I just love that they decided to be weird. There's just very few companies in the digital space that think outside digital and they said screw it. We're going to play in a game that is not our game anyone who does that? I have so much admiration for just deciding to play in a field. That's not yours that you don't belong in more power to you. Tell me I love this one actually, which Angel has done the most to help build into calm and how so I think it's this town who's one of the Twitter Founders invested in us early on in the reason he was so
So helpful was that for young lad? I was 26 when I started intercom and moved to San Francisco for a young lad in this big industry who really thought very little of himself to have someone so accomplished simply give you the time of day and treat you like you're important like he always did boosted my confidence knowing so that's my answer pissed. Oh, yeah, I love it. And I think this is awesome. But tell me what city your biggest business accomplishment. We've talked about it. It's building a multibillion-dollar money hundreds of millions of dollars in Revenue business my way doing it in a silly playful creative alone.
In fashion that no one did before by ripping up the rules figuring out that works to tell me. How do you feel about Elon Musk? And I was seated that question by meet your friends. I really admire the guy he's no less than my hero these days Steve Jobs used to be my hero. I will call Elon Musk my hero now he's so authentically him and so deeply connected to his purpose and not afraid to show up in the world that makes sense to him and is aligned with his values and he's having fun doing it to trust me that most CEOs out there. Look at his Twitter and just
Just wish they could have as much fun as he does. I totally agree with you. Tell me basketball member. You've worked with them why such a dangerous question. Hopefully none of them ever listen to this even though I know you've got a broad listenership. I love working with Ilya freshman. He's with Kleiner Perkins. These days earlier was always just real I'm a stickler for integrity and authenticity and Malia was what he was and he is what he is and it was no games. He wasn't hard to figure out and I admire that so much. I love it. I love it. Yeah, see I think Aleeah mamuno awesome team. Tell me final one.
Next five years for you. And for intercom. What do we have in store on I mean intercoms the easy one because we're on a trajectory a path you just extrapolate into the future. We continue to dominate the space of customer Communications and no less than revolutionize how online business is done. We're starting to invest in customer support now and so we're bringing all our Innovation bike Messengers and Bots to the masses and increasingly bigger businesses. So you'll see that happen at ever greater scale, especially in the next few years for me personally, let's wait and see maybe you'll have me back in five years. I'll tell you the story, but I want to have some fun. I want to play.
And be creative. I have a lot of businesses and different ideas still in me. And there's different things. I've been thinking about for some time. So I'm actively working on a couple ideas. But whatever I do. I hope it's silly fun playful full of love. And yeah, let's see and it has hairy as an investor. I think that's a totally gone. Listen man. Thank you so much for doing this. I've so enjoyed it and I really appreciate you coming back. Yeah. It was really fun. Thank you very very much. I mean that was just one of my favorite episodes ever to record. I think the authenticity
And the depth of the conversation that made it one of the most unique that we've actually done. I want to say a huge. Thank you to earn for coming on the show. If you'd like to see more from Ona. You can find them on Twitter at Owen likewise it be great to welcome you behind the scenes here on Instagram @ H stabbings 1996 with 2 B's. I always love to see you there. But before we leave each day, I want to take a moment to mention hellosign a great example of a company that found success in building a product focused on user experience hellosign is an effortless e-signature solution used by millions to security sand and request legally valid digital.
Signatures and agreements they raised a total of 16 million dollars in funding and recently got acquired by Dropbox for an impressive 230 million dollars check out. Hello sign.com forward slash to zero VC to join the thousands of companies and Founders who value fast secure and simple e-signatures and if hellosign helps you sign that term sheet you need to get the term sheet in the first place and I want to give a mansion to Draper Esprit a publicly listed VC fund that invests in high-growth European tech companies with global Ambitions their portfolio includes
He's like revolute uipath kazoo graph core and many other top European companies Draper is pre writes checks of USD five to fifty million dollars focusing on sectors like consumer fintech health Tech deep Tech and prize in SAS and their investment team has an incredible depth of experience but it is operators and investors that helps businesses scale. Globally. It sounds like the sort of investor you want to work with get in touch with them at Draper Esprit.com. That's dra PE are ESP RIT.
Dot-com and last but by no means least if you don't have a sock to report you aren't going to be able to sell two major customers secure frame help startups get and maintain sock to and ISO 27001 compliance in as little as two weeks join companies, like stream has sir Urbana pass and unlock more sales with secure frame 20 VC listeners get temps and off as secure frame.com /to zero VC. That's secure frame.com. 4/2 0v c as always I so appreciate all your support and I can't wait to bring an
edible episode next week with roll-off at Sequoia
