Seeing themselves and that's fine. It's good for for social networking for forming community in foreign bonds, but it's not great for Learning and I'm much more into learning most of the time look I live for that great conversation. You know that great dinner party conversation. Will you connect with the other person you say something interesting and they see something interesting and you build on that they build on you learn something those to me are really incredible conversations. What I don't enjoy is like 30 people sitting around and sort of, you know grooming.
Each other which is fine, you know, they scratching each other's backs and making sure feel good in their connecting as humans and nothing wrong with it. But this is not what I particularly enjoy. I'd rather read a book but I'm a Loner. I'm an introvert. I'm just introverted can perform in public obvious enough, but there's more than one of me out there. There's other people enjoy that
so when you come on clubhouse, do you feel like you need a lot of time afterward to recharge?
Yes, like afterwards I go read a book or you know, just do yoga or meditate or go to sleep like a this
Well, look this is a classic definition of extrovert introvert. Right which everyone's used to extroverts being people who gained their energy in public and introverts people to spend their energy in public and regained private and I don't know what the correct actual delineation is, but that one strikes me as incorrect into shallow because I'm definitely an introvert under some circumstances, but I'm also an extreme extrovert and other circumstances. So and I know other people like that, so I think I can gain energy in the correct environment.
Aunt maybe just comes into play anything you're having fun in is not exhausting anything you are not having fun in his suffering right look at all the people who go to work and work hard all day and they hit it and they come back and they're exhausted but yet they can jump into a video gaming immerse themselves in video game and an objective basis a difficult video game is just as much work as quote unquote real work, but yet it's not exhausting because there's no suffering in the video game. The stakes are low.
You don't feel stressed about how things are going to go. You don't feel you know, you don't care much about the outcome so you can let go and when you let go and you don't care about the outcome, we don't suffer as much. So I think the extrovert introvert delineation is probably too shallow. It's too neat. It's like Myers-Briggs, you know, there are 16 kinds of people or astrology. It's all kinds of horoscopes. It just doesn't begin to capture the common interests of human DNA There's 7 billion people on the Earth. You'll never find any two were big
These similar you won't be able to substitute anybody for anybody that says yes, your everyone is a unique snowflake much more than a snowflake actually more like an the most intricate Jewel ever designed through DNA, which is actually technically speaking a crystal because it doesn't actually break down as a transfer see generation is it survives pure and replicates purely. So DNA is kind of a crystal and analogy and anyway, so I don't I don't buy the extrovert introvert thing. I just think in environments where
you are not suffering where you enjoying them yourself, you will maintain or gain energy and environments where you are not enjoying yourself where you the stakes are too high your to self-obsessed. You care too much about the outcome and there's too much stress and it too many unknowns. Then you will lose energy and I think a person can gain or lose energy both in an extroverted and introverted book
what environment do you feel like brings out the extrovert in you
novel?
I just have to for me. I have to get bored of being an introvert that I do that a lot all day and I just have to have someone interesting to talk to as long as the conversation is interesting it will persist and you know, sometimes people are interesting just by the nature of who they are sometimes by the nature of the questions. They ask sometimes the nature of the answers they give and the thought they have like floating around the your audience like the Bram Cohen's in here, you know, super interesting guy very very brilliant. I can take him in small doses these two.
You know, he's a he's a very cerebral character, but he doesn't talk much but when he does he have something interesting to say so people like that, you know, really juicy. Yeah recently. I've been getting a lot in back into physics, which is my childhood Obsession, but I never really pursued it all the way. So I've done a few clubhouse that with Brett all who you might have run across and he's a teacher of physics and also popularizer of it and I found it was podcast which was explaining David Deutsch has work in quantum mechanics.
And his writings from the beginning of the book called the beginning of infinity that I really loved. And so I really enjoyed taking the bread because every time I talk to him, I learned something he's very articulate very smart very clever and he didn't he's a true clear thinker right in a clear thinker to me is someone who gets their feedback from reality instead of society like too many people. Just listen to other people like their their their opinion of what is wrong. And what is right is forged by what other people think and that's just content.
I think that's group think that's everywhere. I don't need someone to tell me that I can open a newspaper or the digital equivalent of a newspaper. But there's this there's a smaller number of number of people who I think are truly independent thinkers and they take their feedback either from nature or from free markets, which I grouped together under the bundle of reality and so they will have answers that are sometimes wrong, but they'll always have a unique point of view internally consistent and they'll seem quirky from afar but up close.
Close their brilliant. So I really enjoy talking those people when they were on a clubhouse or wherever
else The Vault. What are you currently reading? And what are your favorite
podcasts?
Currently reading I'd have to pull up in my Kindle. So you have to give me a sec. Hopefully this will work in the
background.
So, I mean the short answer is there's a book called the beginning of the activity and there's a counterpart to call the fabric of reality both by physicist David Deutsch. But he's also not just a physicist. He's also didn't a lot of work on the philosophy of knowledge the theory of knowledge and that caused by the fancy word of epistemology. So I've been reading and reading his books and trying to learn more about them because I think he's brilliant and has some really amazing insights so, you know by by just
Hours, the most time has been spent on those books. I also have a book called scientific Freedom, which is kind of about how you do high-quality scientific research something deeply hidden, which is a book on the many universes Theory by Sean Carroll. I've got a book called The Great way, it's a Taoist book. I think there is no antiemetic division a Sci-Fi novel that. I just finished The Disappearance of the universe energy and civilization when money dies.
I have a lot of books. I mean it's kind of nonsense. I can just go through them all day, but I don't I don't have a particular book that I really read all the time other than I would say the David Deutsch Works Jim kind of currently obsessed with but I've got dozens of other books that I'm reading. It's almost not useful for me to go through them because what will happen is someone in the audience with a call I should read the same books of all as reading and they go read them and then the end up on some of our recommended list, but the reality is 80% of them are not very good and there's only a few that I could actually unequivocally.
and so I would I would unequivocally recommend David Deutsch has books and then I'm always reading some philosophy actually been back to reading schopenhauer who is kind of the German classic philosopher really interesting guy
when money dies sound really sounds really interesting with that about
that's about hyperinflation because I do feel like we printed a lot of money recently both the Federal Reserve has printed a bunch of money and
And also we're doing all this stimulus programs from covid bailouts to now the infrastructure built and I will have an energy bill to whatever we just both parties have sort of lost control of the brakes on the US dollar and I understand why we've been going through a difficult time with the covid induced collapse of the economy and actually was called it covid-19 to the beginning and then lock down induced later. And so we sort of had this situation where the whole traditional economy should have sank. Like if you think of like a
Align and the hotels and the cruise ships in the airplanes were floating above the waterline the energy got drainage system. They should have collapsed 0 or bankruptcy and what the Federal Reserve did with their re-inflate the system. They pumped huge amounts of money into it. So it refloated that part of the economy. But what happened was the parts of the economy that would have been fine regardless such as say Tech businesses got extra floated, so they got raised to twice the level they were at before so
There's all this huge amount of money that's flowed in the system. And because the money came in at the top through the banks and the bankers there's this Effect called a contingent effect where it money was distributed the economy by a central bank first goes to the people who own Banks and have access that money and the people around the banks so that as the things that end up inflating or assets not necessary CPI Goods. So real estate has shot up and desirable markets or has levitated markets where it should not be levitating.
Stock prices are way up crypto is way up is a hard asset gold is way up. So we just pumping huge amounts of money into the economy and said it's a pretty difficult experiment and part of the reason we get away with it is because 70% of all US dollars are held by foreigners. So when we print money allow the dilution is born by foreigners, we have that exorbitant privilege of the reserve currency. Another thing that happens is that the inflation that should happen is masked by technology technology.
Is inherently deflated it should make Savers richer. It should make the average citizen much better off, but it doesn't because the government printing of mighta counteracted get us back at 2% inflation. And then the production of goods in China and India is also deflationary. Like if you're an Indian China and you're producing things you make them cheaper and cheaper you making Western Society richer because you can buy the same product for Less. So combination of technology and globalization as well as covid should our deflationary
Horses, but we have pumped in huge amounts of money. I mean unprecedentedly massive amounts of money. And so those are fighting for reflation and showing up in assets across the board. So anything that is an asset is going way up in value. So there's no good historical analog to this, but when people think of hyper inflation inflation, the think about Weimar Republic Germany, and when money dies is a book that talks about that surprise the first third of the book talks about the Weimar Republic hyperinflation.
and what's its kind of historical story well told and the most interesting piece that I read was when it was describing with the first few years of the inflationary regime look like and the interesting thing is they look like a good old normal fashion bubble where lots of people getting rich and people were very hopeful about the future and it wasn't showing up in the core CPI stats around milk and eggs and food and that kind of thing and everybody thought it was a new normal and a stock market went nuts and
Bastarz went nuts and people were just throwing money around left and right and it sounds a lot like the environment we have today. So, you know, if someone is pessimistic and believes that the inflationary Trends will outdo the deflationary trends then we are at the classic beginning of a death of money stage and by money is case. I mean the US dollar
speaking of money in the vault people are sending me money because of this conversation. I keep getting notifications. I got the monetization features. So I assuming that they just like what you're saying.
Yeah,
you guys really needs your money. Yeah,
that's okay.
Uh, send me since in the colon we
instead thank you. Thank you. Well, okay. So navall talking about crypto. What's your take on big clout? Because I know you haven't yet claimed your profile and I am curious to know what you think about the space or rally IO as well.
Yeah. I'm not going to comment on the specific projects because I don't want to be endorsing or hurting a specific project. I will say that the whole Space is really fascinating. I do believe the social media will decentralize. I do believe that it will
We'll go on to a at least partially on to a blockchain component. I do think it'll probably look more like bit Cloud than like rally because rally is decoupled from the underlying social network. And I think it has to be bundled Into The Social Network. I don't know if big cloud is necessarily the right answer, but I'm kind of taking a wait-and-see attitude towards it because
For someone like me to move onto a social product platform is like a high. It's not a high-risk maneuver. I mean I can do 10 of them. It's no problem. It's just it's weird. Now that are followed by so many people I'm always sending a signal no matter what I do whether I like it or not. I hit like going to Tweet. It's a signal then people start over interpreting it so I don't want to be the Pied Piper leading people to the wrong destination. So to speak, you know, there's some responsibilities involved there. So I want to make sure it's the proper Network done in the right way. Yeah big cloud.
Is an absolutely fascinating by and one thing I mean, I personally think what I would like to see from big cloud is I would like to see a way for people to sell their bit Cloud not just by bit Cloud before it sort of goes mainstream. I would like to see the source code open source so that there are multiple nodes running. I would like to see the like to see some of the security issues, you know involved improve like you shouldn't be putting your private key into a random website to
In I don't think that's very secure. But I think it is very promising and that it has this beautiful Twitter like interface The People Under seeing very well-behaved the Creator coin mechanic. Yeah. I know on the one hand. It's like people get really bent out of shape. Like how dare you use my image, you know to promote your site but like you look at Yelp or glass door, they listed tons of companies when they launched right and so it's kind of accepted with an internet circles that yeah, if something is public domain information,
you kind of use it to accelerate your early launch. It's like we're some webpages getting pissed off the Google crawl them. All right, you know fine but that's just the nature of being on the web nature being a public persona, but I'd like to see them fixing address a few things before I would kind of characterize it as part of the leading effort, but it is very promising. There are parts of it that are well done. And I and I think they're a bunch more coming. So the most interesting thing about something like a bit Cloud assuming
Open source the code when I look at these decentralized social networks. I think there's four things that they do that decentralized. Social networks. Don't do first their permanent. You can't really be banned from them. You might be banned from a bit cloud.com, but you're not going to be banned from the big cloud blockchain hopefully over time when they're open source. Somebody else will create a new client. You can pop up on that. So the Block Chain itself is immutable you can't be removed from it. The second is
that payments are built-in. So money is a native part of the whole system. You don't need stripes or Visa or PayPal has permission to do transactions and you can do microtransactions microtransactions do weird stuff like buying and selling Creator coins. Then there's peer governance when done right on decentralized social networks. The network itself is the governor, you know, people vote with their their coin and so you don't have Mark Zuckerberg or Jack You Know Jack Dorsey in
Arch the most interesting piece though, the most interesting piece is that their permission lessly programmable. So anyone can come in and take the code and extend it program to it right to it read from it. And because the user data is secured by private keys and each user is responsible for securing their own data. You don't have the same issue that Facebook would if they opened up where Facebook can't give everyone access our database because there's a bunch of spammers will come in and take over.
But someone building a decentralized social network, like bit Cloud can so. I think the most interesting things will start happening when they sort of open up the code and other people start programming around it. Whoever wins in The decentralized Social Network space, whatever that blockchain is will not only create something like a better Twitter. It will also create an Instagram. It will also create, you know a tick tock and it might create a clubhouse.
So at what point do you think that they'll create an off ramp for your Bitcoin? Because right now there's no way to get your Bitcoin off and I've heard of bit swap, but I'm not entirely sure how that works yet or if it actually does work it correlation with Bitcoin, but I mean, I just got even a message from a friend that said Anonymous bought $30,000 worth of her coin and it's interesting because it makes me want to know so much more about blockchain and about who these people are.
That are randomly investing in coin that they actually can't capitalize on there's no way to get your Bitcoin back right now. It's just a piggy bank without a
slit. Yeah, they're speculating expect getting it'll be some off-ramp. I think the team should build an off-ramp ASAP. I do believe that that is the biggest missing component to their
legitimacy.
The I transport so many of my Bitcoin over.
Yeah look and look that's how every scam starts right there. Probably make you part when your Bitcoin and the best investment strategy the last 12 years was Bitcoin and chill.
Various. Yeah, I was in a bit clout room. And this is maybe a week ago and I was just talking about how I'm going to be shooting my first stand-up special and 15 people purchase my big cloud and so the real-time investment was mind-blowing to me because that's not really how the world Works in this in this moment. But in the decentralized community, it does
well, but right now there's no promise that
Holder of the big cloud get something special for holding big cloud, right? So over time what you'd have to do is if to cut them in the piece of your ad revenues or to give them like a special newsletter or special stand up or special access, right? So hopefully over time the value of anything any coin associated with you, we'd be realized through special privileges available through that coin, right and I think people that this is this is kind of the beauty of in FTS. I think people are going to get really creative about what they can do. So as an
An example like let's say that you were your n of T. Is your creator coin right and people hold a certain amount of create a coin. Well, what if you were to create like, you know, ten different ft's I don't know what they are images trading cards, whatever and then anyone who has like at least three gets like accessed, you know, backstage pass your next comedy special anyone who has like ten, you know gets it go to like a dinner with you and 10 other people. You have to vet them. Of course, right? Maybe every time your coin hits a certain, you know.
In price, then you release a new special. I think people are going to come up with new stuff and they're going to program it all in that's going to be all kinds of wacky experimentation going to space but for the first time the relationship between the artists and their fans is programmable, right? The relationship is testable. So where we started was at first you had no relationship you put out an album and they bought that in Tower Records and then on a streaming platform they can follow you and they can be fancy.
So that's a new relationship and the next level is they can buy your creator coin to can buy your nft. But I think these are just scratching the surface. I think people are going to start programming these relationships in a very very very extensive way where you will literally be able to take your 1,000 true fans and segment them down to that person once conversational access. This person wants art. This person just wants the joy of being able to say that they were first this person wants to collect three in a row and make some kind of
A stacked set of trading cards at unlock something else. This person just wants to sponsor me so that their company's name is next to me when I'm at as a soft advertisement. So I just think there's a lot of open space to be explored here in some sense buying someone's nft might just be the new ad form right like a Toyota visor and if T and then you put Toyota next to your name or if they're the biggest hole to recreate a coin then their brand associated with you. So
so I think nft brings programmability to this fan and create a relationship and we're going to see how people program that experiment with that and it's some point something in there will work and it will be weird and unusual and we're all going to look back and say yeah, how could it be in any other way? Obviously, that's how I was going to work, but we're not there yet.
And when can we expect expectant of all
nft?
I kind of don't believe in the concept honestly, like really so well in the sense that like I don't buy any and lefties myself. I think they're great. People should do them. I'm not taking anything away from them. But like I'm not a color. I don't have that collector Gene. So to me, they're very academic and I would never sell anything that I wouldn't buy. So kind of just file it to First principles.
Yeah, I've heard you say that have you always been a night. I will
Neville
Yeah, I've always been that
same do you feel like you're more creative and smarter at nights or you just like staying up when no one else is awake.
Yeah, this one you get your privacy, right? I think exceptional people are built in solitude and I just enjoy my time reading meditating doing yoga just you know, just catching up on work. It's easiest when everybody else has gone to bed. No one's going to bother you. I know some people do when they're when they wake up really early the so-called lark.
Versus the owls and I envy them because it's nice to have sunlight but actually when they when I'm up in the day is up and the sun is out. I just want to get outside. It's just too nice.
Yeah, I feel the same exact way. I want to ask you about happiness because I know so many people are suffering are suffering with that. I think I once was it you I heard you say that you like tried antidepressants for a little bit and then you got off.
But you weren't depressed, right?
Well, I was going through a period it's a long long time ago now I gotta I gotta stretch back in memory. I was going through a temporary period I knew it was temporary a new one last and I just read that book. I think it was called stumbling into happiness or that or maybe a red the happiness hypothesis. I think was a happiness hypothesis and the happiness how about this basically said they're only three proven ways to kind of be happy and I forget exactly what all them where I
One of them was cognitive behavioral therapy. Another one. It said was a depressants and informant pharmacological substances, and I actually forget what the his third point was honestly, I don't think they were very good at the time. I thought they were good now in hindsight. I don't think there were those who want to follow but I was curious so I said, okay, let me let me try this. So I took an antidepressant for six weeks. It was one that takes six weeks to have effect and I noticed at the end of six weeks that it turned me from a slight pessimist.
Which is where I was naturally at the time to a slight Optimist and I was like, wow this actually works.
Did you feel very did you feel did you actually feel very depressed when you were younger?
I would say I didn't grow up happy. I was pretty unhappy person but kind of for all the wrong reasons one is I just didn't value happiness. I had other things that were way more important to me. So like it just well like any desire will Cloud your happiness, right think of Happiness as your natural state. It's like the sun shining but any single desires our Cloud covering that sun and most of us have many many desires. So those clouds cover the sun in many cases completely block it out and sometimes you're so
Any unresolved desires and issues and anxieties. They just completely blot out the sun and it does it for years of time that you lose track of why you're doing it. So I don't think one should necessarily give up on their desires your a biological creature walking this Earth. You're going to have some desires have some fun along the way but just if you realize that your desires are what blot out the sun then you just want to be very very careful which ones you have and if it seems dark and gloomy it's because you have too many desires running at this moment in time.
Time so it's more just kind of an observation and it's not to say that I don't and I would it's rare for me to be very to be unhappy these days and it's I would have to stretch far back into memory to find the last time I was genuinely unhappy but at the same time it's not like I'm happy most of the time that's not a sustainable State either. What I'm or go for is calm and peace because peace, you know can be converted to happiness anytime. I think I said this before but I think peace is happiness.
At rest in happiness is peace and motion. So if you are just living a very peaceful and calm life, but then you engage in activity. You will naturally find that that activity is happy. Although if you set out to be happy, you won't get there. It's kind of one of the ironies of of the loaded word called Happiness, but I think peace is the real deal and I definitely think you can find it. You can find it just by observing when you are and you aren't at peace, but the most important thing is just to Value it if you value it you'll find it. If you don't value it, that's fine, too. It's
Just because you're valuing something else you're valuing Career Success. Are you valuing finding a mate? Those are actually the two most common money and the opposite sex survival and replication. Those are the two biggest clouds that cover our natural innate happiness one way. You can see that we're meant to be naturally happy. It's just watched little kids right little kids running around or naturally happy you can child is not happy. You say what's wrong right on the other hand. If you see an adult who's very happy you say what's up?
Which one?
it's our expectation that children should be happy but it's our adults adults should not the yeah, this is adult should not and why is that because puberty is the beginning of desire you can see children when they go from being happy little go-lucky play kids were playing with whatever's there in front of them in the moment to suddenly they hit puberty and then they discover desire and it's the most basic desire desire to replicate the desire to find the
Opposite sex and then of course in our society, even though these kids are biological adults at the age of nine ten eleven. We imprison them because we don't trust them Wild Side. He's more dangerous. You can go get somebody pregnant and that's not acceptable. You could kill somebody that's not acceptable you could die and by doing too many drugs not acceptable. So the teenagers are our biological adults who actually are held as prisoner and homes by parents and the parents become these reluctant Wardens.
And the children are the teenagers now are selling against them because 5,000 years ago, you know 14 year old would have an out fighting a war and maybe raising a family and and that's just not how modern society is designed. So we have to hold these children captive against their own will and we throw them into this false game this fake made up Royal pageantry of high school where there's popular kids and unpopular kids and they just play the stupid false game, but deep down. They know it's a meaningless false game. And so they end up pretty
Rest because they're not actually living out their biological urges. So this kind of this transition from being naturally happy to being naturally unhappy with suppressed desires where you're socially programmed all day long and I think in some ways getting older and and wanting to be happy sort of rediscovering your original childlike innocent state, but now, you know, I child is happy through ignorance. They don't have to worry about
We're going to sleep or how Foods going to give a table or anything like that and a middle-aged person is kind of unhappy because they know too much. They're like shit. I got to work for everything. I don't make everything work or it's going to fall through the cracks and you know, and I have no safety net. I am the safety net and then older person who's closer to death goes back to being happy like a child, but they do it through wisdom because it was actually doesn't matter. I'm just going to die. Anyway at the end of this all goes to zero. So all of these Treasures that I was accused.
Accumulating whether there were mental or emotional or physical. They're all going to disappear. Anyway, so I think that wisdom is a return to innocence but by way of knowledge rather than through
ignorant have you tweeted that yet and of all because I think it's time if you have it.
Well, the problem with Twitter is like everything is out of context, right? So you get you get attacked or everything which is why I like Clubhouse better sometimes thank you Aunt imma get a dash attack because the clubhouse and someone take extra something unfair.
Of the and then tweets it and somebody else attacks
is the book. That's the biggest winner. That's the biggest biggest loser move ever, by the way, but I wanted to ask you going back to finding a mate. Did you did you find that getting married major significantly
happier?
I've always been in committed relationships as far as I can. Remember. This is kind of how I'm hardwired did getting married make me seem to be happier. I think like when you're a single person you just wasted an enormous amount of time and you know, you're always like hanging out environments that you normally wouldn't choose like certain parties or certain dinners or maybe even social institutions. You do a lot of things to just meet the other the opposite sex.
And kind of a sublimated sex drive and you don't really acknowledge. That's what we're doing. Where's when you get married like all that time Frieza, right? Like you can literally free up five hours a day as a young male by being married on the other hand.
Marriage itself takes effort and having children takes a lot of effort. So it's not like you get that free time, too.
Just be yourself. You have to actually go do something. I mean you have to do you have new responsibilities that take that over I think look marriage is a vehicle ultimately for having children, right? So I know there are people who kind of get married and don't plan on having kids, but I would question whether then whether marriage is the best route because no matter who you're with they could be the most interesting attractive perfect person in the world, you're gonna get bored of them after a decade. This is human nature, especially if you follow this Disney romantic,
Philosophy of you have to get everything out of one person that just doesn't exist. We have multiple friends right for our intellectual Endeavors. So I think that ultimately the point of marriage and these the biological point of marriage and historical point of marriage they have children and what is the point of children? Well, you're here because your children so as I took it's a self-fulfilling tautology, but also I think children give you the unique opportunity to genuinely
We love something more than you love yourself. And I think that is really important for being happy because the moment you love something more than you love yourself. You're no longer self-obsessed. You're no longer thinking about yourself all the time. And the source of misery is thinking about yourself all the time. It's being overly involved self that people who are depressed. They shoot themselves in the head, you know, because that's that's the thing that won't shut up a depressed person's mind is talking to them too much not
Little it's a Zen monk whose mind is relatively blank. And so you have you have to find something bigger than you in life eventually and if you don't you blow yourself up, maybe not physically and literally but but probably mentally and so that could be children that could be God that could be a cause that could be some personal spirituality. That could be some movement. It could be some circle. It could just be the 20 cats that live in your apartment you love him to death. But but whatever the
Heck it is you got to love something more than you love yourself because if you don't you blow your brains
out?
That's so true. My most miserable friends are always always thinking about themselves and the world revolves around them. And and then you also find that people who who dedicate their life to service our are not depressed at all. Like you'll never see someone working in a soup kitchen serving homeless
people. I want to be very careful here though because I do know people who are really hedonistic in very happy, and I do know people
World like committed themselves to feel good look good service in a very unhappy. So it's not quite perfect that way right? Like it's not the case that the person is soup. Kitchen is automatically going to be happy. I would say if the person who's in the soup kitchen working there to help people. They genuinely deeply want to help people there. Alright social credit. They're not there to be seen. They're not there to be happy. They're not there that somebody will notice. Oh my God, you're making a sacrifice in a soup kitchen. You're so good.
Then I think they have a shot. But I think the person is soup kitchen is hoping that they will be seeing stand out there needing validation from the outside and they're trying to fulfill that through working the soup kitchen. They're going to be miserable the same way someone who may be self-obsessed and hedonistic, but they kind of don't have expectations out of society sort of approving of what they're doing that person is free and may actually end up very happy. So I think we have to be very very careful anytime that our Notions of what is good.
The individual line up with what is good for society if you see like, oh that person's behavior is good for society. Usually it's actually bad for that individual. In fact, the whole point of social programming is to say to somebody. Hey, I know you want to do X, but you got to do y because X is selfish and why it's good for society. But anytime you see that something lines up very neatly where something looks like it's good for the individual anger for society. It's probably not true.
Wow, are you familiar with Johanna Hari?
No, I don't know who
that he was actually on Rogan I think once or twice but he talks about this too. And he made that exact distinction where if you're doing something and there is intrinsic motivation your you're likely to be happier than then if there's extrinsic motivation meaning, you know, you're doing it to please Society for approval things like that. So yeah, I did.
Didn't I didn't make that distinction? It's a very important one.
Son of all what kind of meditation do you practice?
I just I just sit there with my eyes closed and back straight and try to do it for an hour a day, but these days are ending more 40 or 50 minutes per day.
If you do have it.
Yeah, it's a no effort thing. He's kind of let your mind do whatever it's going to do. You don't you don't push it in either Direction. You don't push it to be more thoughtful or more quiet. You don't pursue thoughts, but you don't shut them down either you kind of just hanging
out.
Do you have a special space that you go to?
Not much. I mean I have a room but it's not like it's not like some holy room with this and sleep. There's next week. Well, I'm in that room right now and it's all candlelit and fireplace little but that's just because I like the lighting there's no magic to it. There's no magic to it. Look if meditation is real if it is real it should be doable by anybody anywhere because it's literally The Art of Doing Nothing any creature can do nothing. It's like the most basic
And just do nothing and anyone should be able to do it and should be able to do it in any place at any time. If you need a special mandala or a special cushion or a special sarong or you know, that's not real that's just human man-made usual bullshit. If something is truly Universal than it is available to all human beings at all times in all places.
Yeah. I heard you say.
All times that you could do it in like a doctor's office or anywhere as long as you're not like consuming information or anything like that and that really
has to be quiet. Yeah has to be a quiet place and I think you want your back straight so you don't fall asleep. That's just purely practical, but you can do it in an Uber. You can do it in a subway train. I don't recommend it initially. I think the best meditation is one where you're not distracted. So even in my little room I'll use earplugs and I'll close the curtains just so I'm not like
Broken out of it because I do fine. If I sit in one spot long enough I go in deeper.
And so do you feel like your meditation helps alleviate suffering or I know that you're saying that you don't feel a lot of suffering these days, but do you think it was because of your meditation practice?
Meditation is very hard to talk about because real meditation only happens when your mind is not there. So almost by definition you can analyze it and experience and articulate it and can convey it. So, you know, it's like sex like if you want to know what it's like you got to do it. There's
just nowhere.
Yeah, there's no my description. I can give you that will come close to real deal. So you just have to do it, but I can try and sell it to
and I think it's worth trying to sell to people because I did find it useful and I think there are other people find useful the way I would sell it to you as I would say like there is your physical body your actual physical body that you exercise and you take care of it through diet nutrition and working out and there is your mental body, which is your brain and you take care of that by, you know, stuffing it with knowledge and maybe you heard it by stuffing with drugs or alcohol and then there is your spiritual body and I would Define
Your spiritual body as just whatever remains when you remove your physical and your mental, so it's just the it's defined by negation not by addition and there is something there like for example the raw Consciousness the raw awareness that you have were of just all events happening to you at all times that Observer that is not really physical. It's been the same since the day you were born and it's not really mental in that you don't feel the same thoughts arise in
All within that that awareness and so that thing is kind of like the spiritual body. Now, how do you take care of the spiritual body? We know how to take care of the physical body the mental body. But how do you take care of the spiritual body? Well, the physical body in modern times needs more movement than it gets modern times. We're pretty lazy. We're privileged. We have a lot of automation mechanism at our at our disposal. So we are the physical bodies under stimulated. So go exercise go stimulate it does.
Stomach is over stimulated. We eat too much we drink too much so you fast to take care of that the mental body is probably over stimulated with junk food and under stimulated with healthy food. So you probably need to consume, you know less social media and maybe more podcast or maybe more books. Well, what do you do for the spiritual body? The spiritual body is completely covered up you lost touch with it because modern society is so full of choices and distractions that we just always
Amusing ourselves. We're amusing ourselves to death as I forget. What the David Foster Wallace who said that so you want to give that a chance to emerge and right now I would argue that most people are spiritually obese and I mean like 300 pounds obese. I don't mean like hundred eighty pound of these and that means that their true self which they've lost connection with their subconscious is buried under layers and layers of non inspection every
time you walk through life all day long things are happening and you're interpreting them and some you interpreting is positive many you interpreting is negative. Someone said something that stung you or you lost money in a transaction or some deal fell through or you know, you didn't you're gaining weight, you know, feel good about it. Whatever the heck it is. All these things are accumulating in your mind and you're so busy as a creature because you're drowning yourself in socialization. So you you've lost
You've lost track of all the problems that you have and there's a few problems that are top of Mind whatever the most important problem today is running through your head. But there's all these other problems you've lost track of that are not piled up like a big garbage pile in your brain that are just sitting there. And so you have no peace any moment that you solve any problem the next one just shows up. It's been waiting for its turn and even when you think you have no problems, there's just this purse.
Assistant nonspecific anxiety that you have because of all these unresolved issues. It's like an inbox of emails or WhatsApp message or text messages that's hundreds deep and just sitting there and even read them and so it's just creating this recurrent anxiety inside of you. You don't know where it comes from and at the very least meditation is a self therapy where you just sit there and you listen to yourself until you had to resolve all of these issues or you get so tired of that you flush the whole thing select all and delete
Then you can start with a clean slate and then you can kind of recover your spiritual body, which is just awareness. That's all it is. But awareness is kind of always peaceful. It's the mode that little children live in they live mostly in Awareness with the occasional thought as opposed to adults who live entirely in thought with just the occasional glimpse of awareness. So I think meditation is a way of going from being spiritually obese to being spiritually fit and it's like trying to describe to a to an unfit person.
Ethan what Being Fit feels like but until you've gotten there you won't know so I think if you're going to do it do it seriously don't do it halfway it's like if you've never worked out in your life and I say wow, it's great having a lot of muscle and being fit and then you like workout twice for like 20 minutes, you know twice a week and you say well I didn't do anything. Oh, yeah. I didn't do anything. You don't make a serious effort. So if you're going to do it be serious about it.
I practice creative visualization by Shakti Gawain and I try to meditate 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes at night, but I feel such a difference if I do not meditate the second half of the day because it feels like a full reset for my body. And of course it reconnects me to my spiritual practice which feels like the utmost of of importance. I'm watching right now as people are coming out of lockdown a bunch of my friends who I would say are miserable or
suffering constantly reaching for power or status or success and unable to live in the present and a lot of them don't meditate which is fine. It's none of my business how they live their lives. But I do find that there's a difference speaking to people of who meditates and who doesn't meditate I feel that feel spiritually like you can sense who doesn't who doesn't. I don't know if that even makes sense, but
I think there's there's this distinction that we make in society between spiritual and successful just like we make a distinction with smart and happy like if you're smart, you're supposed to Signal it by not being happy but showing how much you know about the world and all the things that can go wrong and that's how you signal your intelligence the same way like we say, oh if you're going to be spiritual then you don't care about success and I think all that is nonsense you do whatever you want. You can be spiritual and you can be successful. You can be spiritual and you can be ambitious. It's just
when you're when you are spiritual is is it's a terrible word. I don't want to use it. I just want to say it's self-aware. You can absolutely go after what you want. Just be more self-aware about it and will be a lot easier because you'll be explicit about what you want and then you can put aside the things that you don't want. So you're not pursuing 10,000 things at once. You're just pursuing the thing you care about and when you're not happy, you know why you're not happy. It's because I care about this other thing more and I'm not I've made a contract.
Myself, I'm not going to be happy until I get it. And so let me just go get it and maybe at some point you decide actually it's more important to be happy and I don't need to go get it. So I think spiritual and successful can be in one. I think happy and smart can be in one of these are false dichotomies that we put ourselves
into.
No Vault was it you that said you don't need mentors you need action something like that some variation of
that.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of this thing that goes on Twitter and Clubhouse and whatever people are listening to so-called gurus and maybe I'm supposed to be one of them, but I'm not by the way. No, no ropes. No collection plate. Nothing big nothing to give you I think people are sort of waiting for someone else to transform their life. No one's going to change their life. You just got to take action like mentorship is so overrated. Yes, you can take inspiration.
From other people but guidance, you're living your own very unique life. You're on your own unique timeline with your own unique DNA having your own unique experiences. It's very hard for somebody else to step in and do that and certainly pick up mentors along the way and use them however is useful to you but waiting for them is a mistake every successful person. I know has an action bias almost to a fault when they think of something there's a very short interval before you find them just doing it and they're okay with failing. They're okay with it.
Ation, trying over and over and over. In fact, the least successful people are the ones stuck in analysis paralysis, either they're cynical like that'll never work or they'll let you know. I'm still looking for the right thing or I'm looking for the right partner. I'm looking for the right place with the right time. There's no such thing. If you if you want to do it just do it. That's the only way to be successful in life. You just move move move move move iterate iterate iterate. The biggest Mentor the biggest teacher is reality. It's the environment giving you feedback.
Back and how are you going to interact with your greatest Mentor, which is reality if you're just sitting around waiting for some monkey to show up and be your mentor.
Everyone who everyone was successful can't really articulate how they got there. Anyway, it's a sick kind of an after-the-fact anecdotal story which won't match your
circumstances.
That's so true. But you know yet we all still want to be around you and listen to but on
that and I wouldn't listen to me. I don't know why you're here. I wouldn't listen to me. I don't show up and Clubhouse. Listen to some other person talk about their life and take inspiration from that go get it yourself.
Yeah. I was just going to say I am going to go to I'm going to meditate and then go to sleep because if I just sit here and listen to I'm just going to ask you a question.
About things I've read or things. I've heard you say.
Yeah, I'll let you know way. Do we get doing it in the morning? I think you have a better chance because then I'll sleep. Yeah in the night or what will happen. If you meditate you fall asleep in the morning in theory, you're well rested and refreshed and you can stay awake because meditation is the art of doing nothing while you are wide awake because if you do nothing while you're lying an angle or if it's late in the evening you just fall asleep, and you won't really get
Imitation you'll get kind of dreamy state where you going in that dreams, which can be really fun, but it's not the same thing.
Yeah. Well that give me the Psychedelic experience that you were talking about earlier.
Yeah, I mean I'm meditation you can have full-blown second experiences as intense a second other people to do.
Oh my God, how long do I need to do
this for?
I think it depends on the person everyone's brain chemistry is different. All I can say is like for me, you know after meditating for about a year to a year and a half probably about an hour a day on average I could induce them on demand.
Oh my God, but I'm sorry,
but actually you shouldn't be because like anything it gets boring. If you can do anything too much too easily gets boring after awhile in meditation would realize the the objective is not to have Bliss.
Experiences there is no real objective, but it's not the thing. You're going to Crave and keep doing but again words words about meditation or nonsense. You try and describe something that's beyond the mind. So even the parts of it that I can describe to you aren't the real thing.
So if psychedelic trips during your meditation is an exciting you what is exciting univ all
Look, everything is exciting. It's your perspective. Right? Like it's completely like the real reality is perfectly neutral. It's just a bunch of stuff happening. It's like it look imagine imagine for a moment you didn't exist and you were just watching everything around you as a movie, but you didn't exist you were just an observer and you will but you're watching your friends and family your co-workers go to this movie you wouldn't care about anything. This is all just lights and sounds and colors interpretation and meaning is assigned.
The Observer it's not inherent in the medium. So it's up to you to make things exciting. I originally did not find life exciting that was my fault because I had a bad philosophy about life and then over time I realized actually I only have this one life. So I gotta find meaning in it. I gotta find excitement. Otherwise, I'm just going to go through a miserable life. And then as I started accepting that I also started noticing thanks to meditation and other
You know learnings the inherent Beauty in everything. You can watch a smoke Trail come out of a cup of tea and or you can watch dust, you know, dust particles dancing a Sunbeam and it's as beautiful as anything humans have ever designed. You just lost track of it. You can ponder you know, the vastness of the universe or the my new microbial, you know gut bacteria that live inside of you and their own little civilization and it is completely fascinating. It's just with blocked all these things that we've lost.
Was perspective. So I mean, it's your choice whether it be optimistic or pessimistic is your choice will be grateful or resentful. It's your choice whether to be truthful or dishonest, it's your choice how you want to live your life and at some point you decide like one of my friends Charlie knows he had this great tweet where he said at the end of the day, you have to believe that either everything is a miracle or nothing is and that's your choice like and I choose to believe everything is a miraculous.
It's not necessarily the sense that there's some white bearded dude in the sky who made everything up but it is pretty freaking amazing. Isn't it? When you when you come to contemplate how big the universe is how unlikely you are how complex of a machine you are how many things that you have around you and inside these take for granted. It's mind-blowing beyond comprehension. Not all of human civilization sitting down with pencil and paper couldn't redesign even one tree or one person. So
Already blessed with so much. It's just we lose perspective. And I think most of that loss of perspective comes from being over socialized.
Because they tolerate seeing things like Lamborghinis and fame.
That's so Elaine of all and I just want to say I'm going to go to sleep. For real this time. You are the man you're incredible. I think that I want people like you to be famous. I want my kids grow. I don't have kids yet, but I want my kids growing up listening to people like you. I know you're so humble and you don't think that but, you know growing up in LA and seeing the difference between what we grew up thinking, you know was
I don't know we grew up thinking like we wanted to be famous and we want it. We were playing status games and you don't do that. And you're after what's really
important. I'm obviously playing some kind of status
chemo. It's a little bit of an ego game. It's a little bit.
Yeah. I'm but
that's well. Yeah that what that's a void that we all have. I mean the I think that's just a huge a basic human need to connect with other people when I'm alone for long periods of time I come on this app.
I start rooms, like I totally get that, but you know, I just I have to say it while I'm on this quote-unquote stage, but you're the best. Thank you so much for doing this. I know I'll see you again. We're going to I know you don't schedule interviews. I'm going to interview you again. You're the best. Good night and of
all awesome. Thank you. Good night.
Hello Nepal.
I'm cornered.
I'm now this is when it turns into a clubhouse
after dark maybe five minutes earlier than I gotta
go maybe less honestly, you know, I mean I also would like to go to bed. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the dear. Moon project.
I have no idea what that is.
Oh boy. Okay. So the this yuusaku Misawa is financing a SpaceX Starship of private space flight going.
Around the world. It's around the world around the moon and these taking eight civilians and two crew members and they're leaving in 2024.
Which I have a friend who's in an applicant process right now and he's made it through a couple of rounds and now he's kind of waiting to hear about the next rounds. But I'm so curious to know what your thoughts are in space travel whether you think that hilarious. I just got a payment. Thank you to whoever just sent that. That's very nice of you. Yeah what your thoughts are on space travel not just around the moon but in going to Mars,
yeah, I think it's kind of sad as a human species that we have.
It left the planet nothing. Some of that was just due to bed. Awesome thing is David Deutsch talks about historically where we didn't have Enlightenment style values and Innovation and scientific method and all that. It would be great if we were an Interstellar species, so I completely support that I think what Ilan and and teams like his are doing a fantastic. So in that sense of support the dear Moon project, I just wouldn't want to be the first colonists on the moon or Mars because I like Aaron Water, right?
These are Staples that I'm pretty used to and I'm kind of lazy that way. I don't view myself as a survivalist, but I think it's great that other people do it. There will be people who will you know go out there as fans. There are people who go out there as tourists people who go out there as survivalist people who go there is capitalists and it's all good because that's going to move the state-of-the-art forward so that our children's children's children will be living and you know Interstellar colonies that can't come fast enough.
It's a great teacher. I wish I will be around to see it but I doubt it.
You don't think that will be able to upload our Consciousness to new bodies by then.
I think the actual pace of advancement if you look at it in medical Sciences is so disgustingly slow that I think it'll take a minor miracle to do too much. Like there are some true miracles in modern medicine, like for example vaccines antibiotics Dentistry Lasik, you know, these are like real advancements, but at the same time like there's a whole bunch.
Things that we just haven't solved we can't even figure out the basics and diet. For example, we can't agree on whether cholesterol, you know is a symptom or a cause or in fact most biomarkers or symptoms are causes. I don't think we understand the human body while at all, you know, the fact that surgery even exist and you know, God bless surgeons, but the fact that like they cure your cancer by literally cutting that body part out just tells you we have a long ways to go and there's a future society that will look back on that and say wow, that was pretty
He barbaric that was like bloodletting, but it's just all we had at the time and then there's we don't have serious anti-aging research nor do we have serious anti-aging compounds in development. There's a few companies trying to do it now, but to the extent that we get any extra years the tacked on at the end. So, you know said of living to be 80, you live to be 90, but so that middle split phase when you were you actually want to leave your 20s and 30s, right? We're not getting any more of those so
Not that hopeful about it nor do I want my Consciousness uploaded forever to a device? It raises all kinds of philosophical issues of first, is that really you second do you really want to exist forever third if they can upload my conscience to device and there's nothing to stop them from replicating that consciousness of creating a million copies of me and next thing you know teenage kids are like torturing that Consciousness for entertainment purposes. Right? So there's all kinds of questions that are raised. I don't think we're in a very close to it. I don't know the
ologies even knocking on the door of that. We don't even know what Consciousness is a little or know how to upload
it. Okay. So there are a couple of problems before we get there Nepal. Can you start making a concentrated effort to work toward this or
well, you know why I'm passionate about fundamental physics because I'm a failed physicist originally and I think physics and breakthroughs in physics or create entire industry.
In technologies that push the human race forward, so I'm going to be doing some stuff in that domain. That's kind of my retirement job because I think that is what can actually create the greatest good for all of humanity in a very objective way that no one would you know would take issue with so that's kind of what I'm working on but it'll take a while before. I'm ready to talk about it too
much and how does it feel knowing that you sold 1200 copies of the beginning of infinity in this session
alone. Well the books been so I did.
I know I didn't because the books been sold off for quite a while since it's alright casting about it Brett Hull and I did some podcasts on and that's sold out everywhere. But it's an amazing book. It's the first three chapters though that are on epistemology that are really worth understanding. It's not that I would read that book like you read a mathematics textbook like after each page stop and make sure you actually understand it and think through it and talk about it and sketch it or go. Listen to podcasts about or debating with your friends because it's a philosophy. It's a way of thinking
That I think if absorbed will actually literally make you smarter, but those first three chapters are not an easy read and anyone who says who got through them and you know a few days or even a week or a month probably haven't done it justice,
so I'll have to read every page at least 25 times is what you're saying,
which is actually which is completely fine. Like when your brain hurts from reading a book it's the equivalent of your in the gym and you're exercising and your arms are hurting or your legs are hurting.
And so you just start with lighter weights and do it over and over over until you figure it out. So even when I was really big Infinity there are chapters in there what I would get really confused like the ones are multi versed in quantum physics and the and some of those pieces and those are more for physics teeth. Like you don't need to get to that part. I think the epistemology the theory of knowledge pieces in the beginning or more general purpose and then weirdly enough he has some stuff on politics and art and Beauty at the end which are also
Pretty interesting and very accessible but you don't have to necessarily think you're going to get it all in one pass. It's okay to read it 10 or 20 times. And this is how I encountered a bread Hall. He goes on Twitter by the name talk teacher t Okay teacher and he has this long podcast series both on YouTube and on regular podcast where you he goes through every single chapter in the beginning of the city and he explains it in a different way from his perspective and he's very
chocolate is very good teacher and gives good examples. So there are other people out there that you can learn from and then actually my current podcast is basically dedicated for the game of
vanity.
And let us say Amen. Okay, final question. Are you ready? Navall? Sure. Okay. Okay. I loved what you posted on your Instagram the other day. It was a swipe through and this one says work as hard as you can even though who you work with and what you work on are more important than how hard you work.
And I'm wondering if there are specific people and specific projects that you find me more important than how hard you worked on them.
yeah, the general observations to this three legs of the stool to building anything their hard work which is commonly acknowledged and recognized and then there's you know, the team the people that you work with men, of course is what you choose to work on its historically if you go way way back in human history how hard you worked was probably the most important thing like you're cutting down tree whether you spend two hours or four hours or eight hours on it you get
Two hours or four hours or eight hours worth of output in terms of logs of wood gathered. So in human history, we were very linear workers in modern history were incredibly leverage workers so you can do something and then you create a piece of content and it gets spread over social media and it gets replicated a million times or you make an investment and you're one minute of investment decision making effort is X, you know, $100,000 because that's what
Allocated or you create a piece of code or you ask someone to go do something else and then two people are doing what you asked to do. So because of Leverage the impact of your decisions is far far far greater modern society, but we're not involved for this. We still think in terms of hard work like, oh it's going to take 10 hours a day 15 hours a day. We'll look at Elon Musk or Warren Buffett. These guys are not working any harder than your corner grocery store owner or you know, the person like delivering your you
EPS packages, but they're far more successful. So it is much more about doing the right thing. And then you also have to do it with the right people because we're very collaborative creatures. So if I had to actually order them, I would say first make sure you're doing the right thing. That's the most important and spend whatever time it takes to develop the judgment and get the feedback and the conviction to make sure you're starting the right thing. But at the same time don't get locked into analysis paralysis very often the way to figure out the right thing.
By doing the wrong thing over and over. So do lots of the wrong things but iterate after every time you get it wrong. Stop reflect take feedback from nature not from other people because that's the wrong form of feedback take feedback from free markets and from nature because that's reality those the representatives representatives of reality and then from there iterator the next version and extraversion next version keep trying and then when you figure out the right thing to do hopefully along the way you also iterate with people into
you find people that you're very impressed with where the best of the best at what they do that have complementary skill sets that you trust and get along with and then you pick the right people and then after that you still have to work super hard, but at least now your hard work is going to be rewarded in but having done the right thing ask any poor entrepreneur who didn't find product Market fit the most important thing was picking that initial product into the right Market at the right time afterwards. The hard work was a given check that box. You've got a
Carpet is always competition. But you didn't it wasn't the hard work that made the thing possible. So even though we all know that who you work with and what you work on and how hard you work are very important. I do create a in ordering in that category. And I think what you work on is the most important followed by who you work with. Otherwise, they'll just rip you off or you'll lose interest or you won't get along with them and they will be disaster and then finally at the bottom is how hard you work, but the
doesn't mean that how hard you work isn't important. It's like a stool that would be missing the third leg this do would fall down.
I think the how hard you work has been the part of always focused on and I'm just starting to realize that I need the other two legs of the stool and I just
wanted to and they're more important. There are more
important which I'm starting to realize and I I just wanted to tell you something I think possibly the last time we spoke. No this was maybe two months ago. We were talking about husbands and now I'm in possibly
Ankle and you said something to me that profoundly affected me which was that you said?
That until I focused on what mattered that I wouldn't find the partner I was looking for.
And
likes I don't remember any of this and I'm sure it's true, but I just don't remember what I say. No, no, no.
No, this is and what the thing was that I needed to hear it and whether or not you actually sent the message you meant to send versus I heard what I needed to hear. I am so grateful to you because I just pushed so much further and harder on my work in a way that I hadn't before.
or and I got laser focused on it and I just had several offers from different people to finance my first special and
I'm just very grateful to you.
So that's that's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you for remembering that's fantastic. I guess that's why I get up here in these weird things because so it actually helps somebody and if it helps somebody then I kind of feel you know what it is. Like if you can help somebody by doing something and it takes you very little effort then you're almost obligated to do it, right you're on this Earth with a very unique set of DNA and I'm not actually doing anything. I'm just regurgitating something I read somewhere or some observation. I made it's going to pass.
Through me so if it can be useful to you and you give me feedback this useful to you then I stay on it second Twitter. There's always the haters who let you know how much they hate what you're doing. But there's also often this personal come up and very innocently say, hey, thank you, you know something you said made a big difference then I'm like, okay. Well, then I should stop and so that's good. So I'm glad I was helpful, you know other people helpful to me and you know, that's just how life flows. So pay it forward and help somebody else and I hope your special works out. I look forward to watching.
Maybe some you ticket and I'll
yeah, of course. Oh my goodness. It would be a perfect special but you were in talks about location right now. And one of one of the locations is an absolute dream to theater on Broadway, which was my first dream was to be a Broadway star ha ha. Apparently, I can't dance and of all
that's again Clubhouse. Nobody knows
if you could have
Lefty I would have 10 left feet. But anyway, I don't want to take more of your time. I very much enjoyed
listening to everybody who dropped any I don't know what you're all doing up at, you know this late at night, but that's
great. Thanks. And thank thank you for the feedback and of all.
Thank you. Good night.
